Camouflage clothing used by Panzergrenadiers

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

Hi lads. I've been hearing that splinter/sumpf camouflaged clothing was used often by panzergrenadiers, a lot more than in the rest of the army. How should I interpret this, that I could see an entire squad in splinter trousers, smocks and helmet covers without being historically inaccurate? Seems hard to believe... Your opinions?

[Stigroadie]

The primary camo item for das heer was the zeltbahn.
Not sure that splinter trousers were an issue item, their use is patchy, photos show mostly nco's and officers. I'd avoid them for displays.
Helmet covers seem to pop up more often though by no means common, again rank seems to have its benefits.
Smocks, their use seems to lie between that of camo trousers and helmet covers. I heard mention that they were issued for operations and then recalled after, not sure how true that is. There are some good shots of 21st Panzer in Normandy, showing 50% use but for other units they are absent from the record.
The 116th are shown in some good footage, splinter parkas in one lot and some smocks on a halftrack mounted flak gun crew.
I say stick with the zelt, maybe add a helmet cover or a smock for battles to keep your wools clean.

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

Roger, thanks Sean. That's what I thought. Reason why I got confused is that my group uses a LOT of camouflage clothing, and I find that hard to believe. We do 116th, you've met us at Beltring last year.

[pzrwest]

I think the use of camo is way over done. If you are doing Heer there wasn't alot of camo used unless you are a sniper. The SS is a different story they used alot of camo items. I know it looks cool to have a camo smock, helmet cover, etc but use it very spareingly.

[Hoffman Grink]

Winter (Padded Clothing) was issued out for operations and collected back in again - General Issue was between certain months (will have to look up exact dates) and after that it was supposed to be returned to stores. A Landser(Grenadier) would normally have to make do with his Mantel for warmth.
Smocks were also issued for operations and collected back in again afterwards. I believe the ratio initially was 1 in 6.......
That been said, often equipment was issued and due to circumstances did not get collected back in - Soldiers being soldiers the world over - "gucci kit" (term obviously not coined way back then) was prized and kept as long as possible.

It will be nice to see a return to feldgrau wolle and only a zelt for tarnmuster......

Trousers (camouflaged, non padded) were very rarely worn except by those who could get away with private purchase items. Likewise 4 pocket tunics....

Helmet covers were issued on a similar ratio to Smocks but a lot of field expedient covers were to be seen.

Camouflage in the Heeres is much overused by re-enactors that's for sure.

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

So EVEN when doing Windhund, regular feldgrau would be the norm? (opposing to what my group keeps telling me)

[Hoffman Grink]

Yes..... mainly. Unless recreating 156 or 60 Pz Gr in the Hürtgenschlact. There is footage of lots of them marching along a muddy road wearing Splittermuster Padded pants and jackets. and M43 Einheitsfeldmutzen.

[Obergefreiter Hansch]

Too true. there is WAY too much camouflage gear out there. Personally, I'm sick of the sight of it amongst the WW2 German crowd as so much of it is just crap repros. That is one of the reasons I won't do SS. Give me basic, dirty old feldgrau anyday. I do all periods Heer and don't use anything but my zelt as camouflage. I know this is gonna open a can of worms from those camo lovers/ SS camo-lover-denialists out there (not that thee's anything wrong with that), but just put your zelt on if you need to and at most, cover your helmet in chicken wire and add grass. I mostly use an inner tube cut into a thin ring and just stuff what I need to under that. Grass, small branches, twigs, whatever. Historically correct and practial. Miles better cam effect than a helmet cover! I am a firm believer in portraying the standard or generic, rather than the exotic. To do that, one needs to just use the basics. If that means my wools get dirty in the field, so be it. They are already faded and stained anyway!


Usually when I mention all this, someone says how "Landsers were required to keep their kit serviceable"...it is. It is all in servicable condition. Just because it is used and older and stained and in some cases faded, does not mean that I don't look after it. I beat the mud out of it when I have time "in rear areas". I oil my leather kit once a year (four times since 1940!!!!) but it all looks as though I have lived in it for some time (I have) and that is what sets my impression apart from the parade ground reinforcement look.

I am proud of the way my kit looks. I have a nice hair oil/ dirt staining effect in my M43 and the peak is nicely crimped from donnning/ doffing with dirty hands. It has faded to a nice dishwater colour. There is litle paint left on the buttons. My tunic and trousers have also faded and if you lift the collar you can see the original filed gray shade some 10 shades stronger- same with the pleats on the pockets. Darker underneath. It has oil stains/ smears on the front from cleaning my weapon which dust has stuck to and the trousers have soil marks at the pocket entrances from constantly fishing things out of my pockets.. the knees are grass and soil stained and the seat has a couple of tears (repaired) from getting in and out of vehicles and foxholes. When the equipment comes off you can see where my Y strap sit. When I take the tunic off, it nearly stands up by itself as the wool has molded to my form. When in the field I sleep in it when its wet.

My boots have most of the hobnails, albeit in different stages of wear from being replaced where possible, and they have some original brown colour showing through from the treatment they get occasionally. They are NOT polished!! My spare low boots are in my ruck. All my gray socks have holes in them! Some are darned but most are held together with household string and snot.

My leather equipment smells like a horse rig...sweat and oil... and is worn-in and supple...the stitching is no longer white but mainly a dirty grey/black colour (oh the horror) and the underside of the leather a nice oiled brown colour- no fresh tan. The bayonet and e tool have no rust and the edges are true. My stahlhelm has a couple of small dings and half the single decal is off. It has some surface rust on the edges and is stained and scratched from the foliage fitted under rubber bands or chicken wire. The liner, like my caps has a good amount of sweat staining and oil staining.

So.....a bit off topic, but I just wanted to highlight the pride you can have in staying as a basic, field gray clad, weiss-waffenfarbed landser. I really believe that we can become blase with all the shiny kit out there and I love to stay grounded and put more effort into my limited amount of kit. But f&*ck it looks good! I am not knocking the camo clad hordes, but I think more of the Heer boys need to come back to basics.

The best thing of all..........my waffenfarbe is white........dirty white!

Hirschmann

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

+1 for Hirschmann! That's how I want it to be!

Do you happen to have any photographs of yourself in the field?

[Franz repper]

Why Obergefreiter Hirschmann Speaking as one of those Nasty SS Camo clad crowd ,I am with you on the way you are on your uniform and leather kit I do have a camo smock that is coverd in crap and stinks ,no helmet cover boots that have a good helping of lederfett them A CLEAN rifle.The long and the short of it is all my kit is used and abused just like the real thing

[Obergefreiter Hansch]

Definately have pics...will have a dig around, see what I have. Then I need to work out how to post them! Stand by and I will see what I can do.

Franz, great to hear of a fellow crud cruster! May I add that I would be happy to serve alongside a camouflage clad soldat who looks like he has worn the stuff for some time rather than a fresh coloured parade ground basher! There is just something not quite right about sparkling clean patterns!!!!!!!!!!!


Maybe we can start a thread on pics of members in used/lived in kit????????????? Thoughts?

Hirschmann


ps My avatar is me in my well lived in DAK kit. (Yes, its hot here in Australia) For example, the dirty brown smear along the cap/body join is sweat and hair oil!

[dog green 1]

Would love to see a pic of Hirschmann as well. Kit sounds superb. Great recreation of a front line soldier.

[les hearn]

well............
hirshman

i am also proud of the fact my kit is the same as yours

[Franz repper]

My dear Obergefreiter Hirschmann and Les that makes at least 3 black nights

[nelz]

...... Foook me !!... .. and here's me thinking only our lot looked like battle tramps,.. complete with authentic odours !!....