K98 maker

[Sean]

Ive done a quick search but have been unable to find a thread. I have a K98 and it is marked 'xm3 41 bys'

I've taken a look on google but have been able to find nothing in regards to that 'maker' I think it may be an early war rifle as it has the early style milled floor plate as well as the early type milled trigger guard.
Any information would be appreciated.

Edit - I have found a company called Ruhrstahl A.G., Guss-stahlwerk Witten, Witten, Ruhr who used the maker code 'bys' does anyone have any information on this company? Were they a sub contractor who manufactured specific parts?

More research, I have noted a '147' on the top of the rifle with a stamp '1940' below Now this mark was apparantly the mark of a company called 'JP Sauer und Sohn Gewehrfabrik, Suhl' (who are still around now, but strangely there company history jumps from 1918 to 1957
Can anyone confirm what I have found is correct or where I have gone wrong.

[Botty]

Maybe company records were destroyed in the war?

[Tommy]

Ive done a quick search but have been unable to find a thread. I have a K98 and it is marked 'xm3 41 bys'

Edit - I have found a company called Ruhrstahl A.G., Guss-stahlwerk Witten, Witten, Ruhr who used the maker code 'bys' does anyone have any information on this company? Were they a sub contractor who manufactured specific parts?.

Information taken from "Backbone of the Wehrmacht" indicates that bys manufactured barrels.

More research, I have noted a '147' on the top of the rifle with a stamp '1940' below Now this mark was apparantly the mark of a company called 'JP Sauer und Sohn Gewehrfabrik, Suhl' (who are still around now, but strangely there company history jumps from 1918 to 1957
Can anyone confirm what I have found is correct or where I have gone wrong.

147 was indeed the code for JP Sauer und Sohn Gewehrfabrik, Suhl, they would of manufactured, assembled or proofed your K98.

" Backbone of the Wehrmacht by Richard D Law" is a useful book but not cheap.

Hope this helps

[Sean]

Thanks for the information Tommy, I have noted there were lots of different manufacturers and sub contractors. Now would the sub contractors parts have been shipped to the JP Sauer und Sohn Gewehrfabrik, Suhl factory and assembled from there?
I must admit I'm very chuffed with the rifle as the dates stamped are all quite early war, one says 1940 and there is another faint stamping of 1941.

[Brigardefuhrer]

According to the three letter code book 147 is the early stamping of JP Sauer & Sohn,a long established gun maker,they then changed their markings to ce.
Ruhstahl AG also used the code byr it states that it was a manufacturer of armour plate.

[Sean]

Further hints/help required!

I've recently aquired a cleaning rod and after much persuassion the rod will go into the small hole. The only problem I have now is it want go all the way in and I am left with around 6'' worth of rod sticking out of the hole.

I was wondering, when they deactivation took place was this hole effected or is this a manufacturing fault?

[Tommy]

Further hints/help required!

I've recently aquired a cleaning rod and after much persuassion the rod will go into the small hole. The only problem I have now is it want go all the way in and I am left with around 6'' worth of rod sticking out of the hole.

I was wondering, when they deactivation took place was this hole effected or is this a manufacturing fault?

Hi Sean.

A cleaning rod that protrudes around 6" from the its hole sounds about right, mine was shortened during deactivation and stops just short of the end of the barrel.

Regards
Tommy

[Sean]

Sorry, I didnt quite write that clear enough. I should have said the rod itself is sticking out so it goes past the end of the barrell. I did try a few things last night but I seem to be hitting something very hard and does not feel like a build up of muck.

[KB Martinsen]

Silly question I know, but I presume you do know that there are two different sizes of cleaning rod?

They are either 39cm or 31.5cm.

I hear that repro rods can be a tight fit though.

[Sean]

Hi, yeah I was aware there were two different lengths, but either way there isnt sufficient depth in the hole for a shorter one to make much of a difference....

[Sean]

Here's a few photos.

[GGG]

Hi, the marking on your barrel isn't "xm".
It's "cxm", a code used by the company Geco (Gustav Genschow & Co. AG). A big weapons- and ammunition-company.
Maybe the company has made the barrels.

With best wishes
Michael

[Enigma]

The floor plate has a different number than the mechanism. It is not unlikely that the whole rifle is a mismatch. The finish on the barrel looks less worn. There are piles of numbers on these and they all should match. The complete number on major parts and the last two digits on the smaller parts. That the number 4858 has no letter attached indicates early 1940 manufacture. The normal procedure was to start a new number sequence each year.

Sauer together with Mauser were the main manufacturers of K98 rifles. Sauer developed the Stg44 that reached a total of 424 000 units made before the war ended. Sauer moved to West-Germany after the war and was established there in 1951.

The short cleaning rods were for the short carbine used by the alpine troops. Originally this was a Czech rifle for police use. Manufacture of these was continued during the German occupation and it was issued to alpine troops as the Gewehr 33/40. They are uncommon, lighter, shorter and more expensive than the ordinary K98k's.


Kind regards
Enigma