Weapons "out of place"

[Schuller]

This means they go "on the books" and are part of the TOE for want of a better term.

There are entries in soldbuchs for captured weapons, some soldiers reported owning a colt.45, browning high power, revolvers...Germans even had their own names for foreign weapons
Possible, but common?

[Hoffman Grink]

Germany, as it overran European countries absorbed their armaments manufacturers into the Reich. As a result it continued to produce weapons such as the GP35 and gave it a German Nomenclature usually with a bracketed suffix to indicate country of origin. So the Browning Hi-Power became P640(b) Pistole 640 (b) for Belgisch or Belgian.

Soldbucher do indeed sometimes include foreign weapons being issued to troops which re-inforces the statement of them being collected, shipped back, resorted and refurbished then put on to enlistment.

It's not rare at all - I have two extensive books on German Service Weapons and both include sections covering inducted weapons. Uwe Fiest's "Die Wehrmacht" vol1 has a paragraph in the back covering captured weapons in service which include M2 Brownings, M1928 Thompsons complete with Drum Mags, PPSH41, DPs, VZs and many others.

Again - this seems to me to be a lack of reading - Weapons "out of place" is not really a good term when applied to the Wehrmacht - They adopted all manner of weapon systems and certainly innovated many more. Remember - Bofors, Solothurn and Oerlikon were used by both sides in WWII......... purchased legitimately too.

[pepperpot]

"No, it was the other way round Graham, they were designed to use MP40 mags"
i was told that the german army had so many sten mags, that the 3008 was designed to take them because the mp40 mags were in short supply, i remeber being told this in Berlin in 2005 when i met several German vets and was then taken onto the firing range to blast off a few rounds.
like all 9mm german and english fully auto they had the problems of either not firing, jamming and more worryingly going off on their own. My german fallschrimjaeger friend told me of a fullyy loaded mp40 being knocked off the hanger in barracks and discharging the full mag. the person in question who left it there cocked with the safety on was sent to the russian front
graham

[gurowski]

regarding comments about converting Ppsh's to German 9mm after the soviet ammo ran out,
how practical would that have been to do in the field (well, at least by the most forward armorer available)?
i'm not terribly familiar with what it would take, the precise differences in cartridges, nor am i a gunshith, but while i know it was done, it seems more trouble than it would be worth.

They would go to a workshop and have a new barrel fitted. Then probably be shipped with the adapter fitted in place. You only need to knock a roll pin out to change the barrel, it is a 2 minute job.

[Hoffman Grink]

regarding comments about converting Ppsh's to German 9mm after the soviet ammo ran out,
how practical would that have been to do in the field (well, at least by the most forward armorer available)?
i'm not terribly familiar with what it would take, the precise differences in cartridges, nor am i a gunshith, but while i know it was done, it seems more trouble than it would be worth.

They would go to a workshop and have a new barrel fitted. Then probably be shipped with the adapter fitted in place. You only need to knock a roll pin out to change the barrel, it is a 2 minute job.

SHHHHHH!
They'll all be doing it now!!!

[GD,obergrenadier]

regarding comments about converting Ppsh's to German 9mm after the soviet ammo ran out,
how practical would that have been to do in the field (well, at least by the most forward armorer available)?
i'm not terribly familiar with what it would take, the precise differences in cartridges, nor am i a gunshith, but while i know it was done, it seems more trouble than it would be worth.

Believe it or not it was surprisingly simple,1 new barrel and a magazine adapter and your on your way,both 9mm and 7.62x25 have the same base diameter (they're kissing cousins bty) so it was simple swap of the barrel (less than 5 min) and fit the adapter for mp40 mags (10-15 min,more or less,some fitting would have been required).

[rednas]

Beretta Mod 38/A in Arnhem 1944 according to http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/v ... 35&t=65156

[Gadge]

A lot of the time its a case of the 'grass is always greener'

The average lad is on the receiving end of the enemies weapons... he sees the carnage they create . he doesnt see someone swearing at it everytime it has a stopage... or it misses because the sights are flawed or that the guy shooting at him keeps dropping the awkard sized mags out of the pouch that wont fit them.


Classic examples (both annecdotal) from two classic books.

Pegasus Bridge: nearly *every* man in the Oxf and Bucks coup de main force had 'aquired' an mp40 by the time they were taken out of the line... they kept their rifles which were ferried about in handcarts! (i've also got numerous other accounts where brit lads favoured the MP40 or MG42 whenever they could find one with enough ammo and spares)

It never snows in september: German veteran accountin that that the Sten was a treasured possesion, so much so that owners slept withthem tied to their wrists to avoid waking up to find a comrade had 'borrowed' it. Regardless of its reliability it was favoured because it allowd you to get very low when prone in the rubble...

Similarly a *lot* of the skirmishs around Arnhem were fought with both sides using each others small arms as the germans were quite low on supplies to begin with and overjoyed when the RAF started dropping resupply arms and ammo into their sectors and the beleagured UK airborne simply ran out of ammuniton and were forced to loot german casualties for weapons.

There is a very good account in INSIS of a cut of couple of german lads racing round the corner of a street to the sound of a 'frendly' MG42 and running smack into a section of uk paras crewing one!