Who would use the StG-44?

[SturmGewehr Soldier]

Does anyone know who would use the SturmGewehr-44 aside from SS? I have a reproduction STG, and I would love for my uniform to match my replica, but... I don't feel like being SS due to the fact that the officers were some of the few (in comparison to the rest of the military, and how few of the Heer, Luftwaffe, and KriegsMarines knew about the holocaust) that actually knew and helped the jewish people be massacred. I would prefer not to be SS, but it appears no one else used the StG44.

[Heeresbergführer]

Servus StG Soldier,

Don't know where you're getting your information from, but I think you need to do some more research online and/or purchase some books. Plenty of Heer Infantry, Gebirgsjäger, and Skijäger units that were issue with the weapon.






Hals und Beinbruch,

Patrick

[SturmGewehr Soldier]

Servus StG Soldier,

Don't know where you're getting your information from, but I think you need to do some more research online and/or purchase some books. Plenty of Heer Infantry, Gebirgsjäger, and Skijäger units that were issue with the weapon.

Hals und Beinbruch,

Patrick

Hm. Almost every time I have seen photos of the STG they were used by SS, so I believed a Heer soldier carrying a StG was a very rare occasion. Well thank you for clarrifying, and now I know that it wasn't such a rare occasion for Heer to use them.

Thank you

[gurowski]

but... I don't feel like being SS due to the fact that the officers were some of the few (in comparison to the rest of the military, and how few of the Heer, Luftwaffe, and KriegsMarines knew about the holocaust) that actually knew and helped the jewish people be massacred.

What a stupid comment. You obviously read too many forums and not enough, if any, real research books. Sure SS were involved, but the WH didn't come away smelling of roses either.

Try reading a book called The Good Old Days: The Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders for a better insight into the involvement of the WH, maybe you wont feel like doing WH now either.

Lastly, to answer your question, i know a WH Vet who fought the yanks around Aachen, and his unit was issued STG44's

[SturmGewehr Soldier]

but... I don't feel like being SS due to the fact that the officers were some of the few (in comparison to the rest of the military, and how few of the Heer, Luftwaffe, and KriegsMarines knew about the holocaust) that actually knew and helped the jewish people be massacred.

What a stupid comment. You obviously read too many forums and not enough, if any, real research books. Sure SS were involved, but the WH didn't come away smelling of roses either.

Try reading a book called The Good Old Days: The Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders for a better insight into the involvement of the WH, maybe you wont feel like doing WH now either.

Yes, of course there were Heer that did terrible things to the jews in the war, but if you look at the SS, the Heer wasn't as bad, and a majority of thse oldiers didn't know what was going on. If you hadn't ever heard, many soldiers thought the jews were going to "resort" type places, not to labor and murder camps.

Also, I hope this has a no flame/off topic policy, because what you responded with (the majority of it) had basically nothing to do with my question, and this is a subject for a different thread

EDIT: Also, the problem with the SS is most people who have a decent knowledge of world war 2 know that the SS was more involved with the holocaust than the Heer, which I agree on due to the fact there were more SS related holocaust incidents than Heer when to percentages. Anyways, I feel more comfortable as Heer because of their lesser knowledge and involvement of the holocaust compaired to the SS.

I know this may be a bad reference since it is a film, but this wasn't the only case, but this film was the first thing that came to mind when talking about Heer vs SS in holocaust involvement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE5AERj_7Zs

[gurowski]

but... I don't feel like being SS due to the fact that the officers were some of the few (in comparison to the rest of the military, and how few of the Heer, Luftwaffe, and KriegsMarines knew about the holocaust) that actually knew and helped the jewish people be massacred.

What a stupid comment. You obviously read too many forums and not enough, if any, real research books. Sure SS were involved, but the WH didn't come away smelling of roses either.

Try reading a book called The Good Old Days: The Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders for a better insight into the involvement of the WH, maybe you wont feel like doing WH now either.

Yes, of course there were Heer that did terrible things to the jews in the war, but if you look at the SS, the Heer wasn't as bad, and a majority of thse oldiers didn't know what was going on. If you hadn't ever heard, many soldiers thought the jews were going to "resort" type places, not to labor and murder camps.

Also, I hope this has a no flame/off topic policy, because what you responded with (the majority of it) had basically nothing to do with my question, and this is a subject for a different thread

EDIT: Also, the problem with the SS is most people who have a decent knowledge of world war 2 know that the SS was more involved with the holocaust than the Heer, which I agree on due to the fact there were more SS related holocaust incidents than Heer when to percentages. Anyways, I feel more comfortable as Heer because of their lesser knowledge and involvement of the holocaust compaired to the SS.

I know this may be a bad reference since it is a film, but this wasn't the only case, but this film was the first thing that came to mind when talking about Heer vs SS in holocaust involvement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE5AERj_7Zs

a film, FFS, if this is the best you can do to support your convictions, then it isnt even worth having a discussion with you.

I feel more comfortable as Heer because of their lesser knowledge and involvement of the holocaust compaired to the SS.

How do you quantify the comment that the Heer had lesser knowledge of the Holocaust?

Get out of reenacting WW2 German if this is what you really think. When reenacting WW2 German WH, you are still reenacting an organisation that had and participated in the running of the camps, and were involved in the execution of Jews, blacks, homos, and civillians. Just as history has shown the SS to also be involved.

[pepperpot]

From a vet i know the greatest problem was getting the ammo, 7.92x57 and 9mm were available in far larger quantities that 7.92 kurt, so without the ammo (like any gun) might as well use it as a walking stick. Recent pictures on this forum showed African women with 44's and no ammo
graham

[dixiedrummer]

A lot of Volksgrenadier units were issued STGs later in the war. Heer troops were some of the first to test the weapon in April of '43.

SturmGewehr Soldier, talking about the holocaust in your first post wasn't the brightest move. Not to be harsh, but you do show a lack of knowledge of what really happened. Everybody knew about the camps. I've never heard of anybody thinking the Jewish people were going to a "resort camp." Maybe not everyone knew about the mass exterminations, but they definitely knew it wasn't sunshine and rainbows in any of the concentration camps. The Heer was very much involved with partisan actions and the "clean-up" of territories conquered by the Wehrmacht, so their record isn't as spotless as you'd think.

You never mentioned why you were wanting to carry an STG in the first place. Are you planning on reenacting or playing dress up in the yard? If you're reenacting, the first thing you need to do is join a unit, not worry about weapons and the holocaust.

[pepperpot]

The Heer was very much involved with partisan actions and the "clean-up" of territories conquered by the Wehrmacht, so their record isn't as spotless as you'd think.

and also the Luftwaffe as well, this can be seen on the documentaries when Poland was invaded.
graham

[gurowski]

The Heer was very much involved with partisan actions and the "clean-up" of territories conquered by the Wehrmacht, so their record isn't as spotless as you'd think.

and also the Luftwaffe as well, this can be seen on the documentaries when Poland was invaded.
graham

There is an online collection of photos from the bundy archives that show the execution of a village of Cretians (crete people) being executed BY FJ troops for resisting the FJ when they invaded.

[ringer]

going a bit off topic from the question about the STG but I think this is the series of photos Steve has mentioned...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... i_Massacre

rather graphic towards the end so if you have soft stomachs skip the last few

[GraemeMac]

STG Man......do a bit more reading.


To think that any branch of the military(and civilians on the whole) knew nothing of the final solution is utter tripe.

Theres some interesting reading in 'soldaten', a book which documents secretly recorded conversations between POWs during and after the war. There is a huge section about the holocaust. Many army and lw officers and ncos were recorded talking about having witnessed executions of jews, being invited to watch, to take part, and a general 'holocaust tourism' atmosphere about it.

Read various war memoirs(FJ, heer or ss) and you will find snippets of soldiers passing transport trains of jewish deportees on the railways heading east. They didnt know right........

Come on man.

[kiler]

a film, FFS, if this is the best you can do to support your convictions, then it isnt even worth having a discussion with you.

Unfortunately gurowski, THIS certain German TV series did a lot of damage to historical awareness of many and SturmGewehr Soldier is a very good example of that. However many think that this was the main purpose of this production.

@SturmGewehr Soldier: I personally recommend you a book by Christopher Browning: "Ordinary Men : Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland" (New York : HarperCollins, 1992). You can read there about "ordinary Germans" - the men of Unit 101, that certainly were not demons or Nazi fanatics but ordinary middle-aged men of working-class background from Hamburg, who had been drafted but found unfit for military duty. In some cases, these men were ordered to round up Jews and if there was not enough room for them on the trains, to shoot them. In other, more chilling cases, they were ordered to merely kill a specified number of Jews in a given town or area. The commander of the unit gave his men the choice (once) of opting out of this duty if they found it too unpleasant; the majority chose not to exercise that option, resulting in fewer than 15 men out of a battalion of 500 opting out of their grisly duties. And this was only one of many battalions in German armed forces... .

I think you better start reading before you start reenacting, because many unaware people will be asking you about this things at the shows. As reenactor you need to be the witness of history for other people, not the creator of your own vision.

As for main topic:

Actually, Stg44 was first introduced in WH, 1 ID to be specific, where it was tested en masse from June 1944 and gain enthusiastic reviews.

[kiler]

Theres some interesting reading in 'soldaten', a book which documents secretly recorded conversations between POWs during and after the war. There is a huge section about the holocaust. Many army and lw officers and ncos were recorded talking about having witnessed executions of jews, being invited to watch, to take part, and a general 'holocaust tourism' atmosphere about it.

I think you are referring to this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... st-SS.html

Rollin from "At the front" has just put the link on shop`s facebook page.

[Oberleutnant Ulrich]

Again it's going off topic, please stick to the main topic of the STGs and which units used them and lets avoid going to far into the other subject as it never comes out nice. Yes it's history, I understand, but I must kindly ask as one of the mods that you discuss this between yourselves.

Fallschirmjäger units were also issued the STG-44 along with many Heer units on the Western front. The weapon in general was rare compared to the K-98 and the MP-40, but near the end of the war almost every type of unit saw them. The question is, which front and what time period? The later in the war you wish to reenact the more likely they got STG44s.