Fake arrest disc

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John Wilson
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Fake arrest disc

Post by John Wilson »

After a little farting about on the 'tinternet I"ve found that some fake Gestapo warrant disks are made with the legend M9/86 under the eagle, why is this? Was there ever a Third Reich produced piece with any markings on them, and if not, why are these fakes so prelevant?
94-87 Ich bedauere nichts
57-93 Either put me in jail or kill me

Feldjager
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Post by Feldjager »

If it is one of the square type, these normally have 'M/10/86' cast into the obverse side underneath the word 'Staatspolizei'. There is considerable debate as to whether these tags ever existed, however there is one which is believed to possibly be original. Certainly no documentary evidence in any archives has ever been found to support them.

I've been lucky enough to be able to examine 2 certified original Gestapo discs and these did not have any markings on them of the type you mention or I cite above. If it is of the oval type, I would be inclined to say it most likely a fake.

Dave
Feldgendarmerie Trupp 82 - http://www.feldgendarmerie.co.uk
Panzer Nachrichten Abt. 38 - http://www.funker.co.uk
Hauptverbandplatz 82 - http://www.hvp82.co.uk

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John Wilson
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Post by John Wilson »

It's the oval one and definitely a fake, I was just wondering about why they're made with the numbers if the proper ones never had. (I do sometimes ponder about important things occasionally though) :lol:
94-87 Ich bedauere nichts
57-93 Either put me in jail or kill me

whatthecrunchyo
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:26 am

Re:

Post by whatthecrunchyo »

Feldjager wrote:If it is one of the square type, these normally have 'M/10/86' cast into the obverse side underneath the word 'Staatspolizei'. There is considerable debate as to whether these tags ever existed, however there is one which is believed to possibly be original. Certainly no documentary evidence in any archives has ever been found to support them.

I've been lucky enough to be able to examine 2 certified original Gestapo discs and these did not have any markings on them of the type you mention or I cite above. If it is of the oval type, I would be inclined to say it most likely a fake.

Dave
Where did you hear that there may be real square disks? I bought one today from an antique store that was somewhat buried hoping that I scored. I've compared it to pictures of fakes I've seen and mine seems to be made of much, much, much, better quality and craftsmanship. Only problem is, it seems most think all of the squares are a fake, which they very well may be, but I'd hate to push it aside if it is in fact real!

Feldjager
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Re: Fake arrest disc

Post by Feldjager »

From conversations with other collectors - Don Bible is regarded as the leading authority on these. Best bet is to head over to WAF and post it up there.

There are pictures of the square type of discs (a contradiction?!) in Don Bible's book Third Reich Warrant Discs (ISBN 0-7643-1429-7). The square type only appear in the book in section 8 - 'Less Common Fakes'.
Feldgendarmerie Trupp 82 - http://www.feldgendarmerie.co.uk
Panzer Nachrichten Abt. 38 - http://www.funker.co.uk
Hauptverbandplatz 82 - http://www.hvp82.co.uk

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whatthecrunchyo
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Re: Fake arrest disc

Post by whatthecrunchyo »

Feldjager wrote:From conversations with other collectors - Don Bible is regarded as the leading authority on these. Best bet is to head over to WAF and post it up there.

There are pictures of the square type of discs (a contradiction?!) in Don Bible's book Third Reich Warrant Discs (ISBN 0-7643-1429-7). The square type only appear in the book in section 8 - 'Less Common Fakes'.
Yeah, I posted in on the WH forum. They said it was a fake due to its square shape which never existed. Shame...

ReinerWerner
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Re: Fake arrest disc

Post by ReinerWerner »

http://ausweismarke.de/31201.html

The above link takes you to German / Hamburg CID investigator and German warrant disc collector Joachim Streckwaldt. His website will show you what's what in the field of collecting historic German warrant discs.

About the square Gestapo Warrant Disc of “Zentral Inspektion” / “Central Inspection”:

#) Description : Square , 48 x 48 mm to 40g , brass-colored

Front : “Geheime Staatspolizei”/ “Secret State Police” underneeth the “Reichsadler” eagle ; underneeth that in small “M / 10/86“

Back: “Zentral Inspektion” / “Central Inspection” above that two rectangular fields a number and location name stamped / engraved .

Known places / locations : Dachau , Lublin , Guson ( should actually be Gusen ) , Auschwitz , Sachsenhausen , Mauthausen , Niederhagen , Arbeitsdorf (working village) , Natzweiler and Bergen-Belsen .

There is no evidence that these discs have been in existence at any given time in history.

The prevailing opinion of reputable dealers and auctioneers states that without exceptions these discs are fantasy products from either England or Austria . I advise on the purchase and acceptance of such pieces . They have a maximum value of 20 , - € as a fake for collectors .
The symbol (Toolmakers mark) “M / 10” of Reichszeugmeisterei (Toolmakers of the Reich) was specifically reserved for the producers of Musical instruments.

Good luck collecting ...

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

#) Beschreibung : Quadratisch, 48 x 48 mm, um 40g, messingfarben

Vorderseite : "Geheime Staatspolizei" dazu der Reichsadler; darunter in klein "M/10/86"

Rückseite : "Zentralinspektion" darüber in zwei rechteckigen Feldern eine Nummer und eine Ortsangabe eingeschlagen/eingraviert.

Bekannt sind Ortsangaben : Dachau, Lublin, Guson (müsste eigentlich Gusen heißen), Auschwitz, Sachsenhausen, Mauthausen, Niederhagen, Arbeitsdorf, Bergen-Belsen und Natzweiler.

Es gibt keinen Beleg dafür, dass es diese Marken überhaupt gegeben hat.

Die herrschende Meinung der seriösen Händler und Auktionatoren besagt, dass es sich ausnahmslos um Fantasieprodukte aus England oder Österreich handelt. Ich rate vom Kauf und der Annahme solcher Stücke ab. Sie haben einen Wert von maximal 20,- € als Fälschung für die Sammlung.
Das Kürzel "M/10" der Reichszeugmeisterei war übrigens den Herstellern von
Musikinstrumenten vorbehalten.

Viel Erfolg beim sammeln ....
Attachments
Gestapo Zentralinspektion viereckig Dachau 5018 Kürzel = FAKE [The Symbol / Das Kürzel "M/10" for the Reichszeugmeisterei / Toolmakers within the Reich]
Gestapo Zentralinspektion viereckig Dachau 5018 Kürzel = FAKE [The Symbol / Das Kürzel "M/10" for the Reichszeugmeisterei / Toolmakers within the Reich]
Gestapo Zentralinspektion viereckig Dachau 5018 Kürzel = FAKE.jpg (4.02 KiB) Viewed 8614 times
Gestapo Zentralinspektion viereckig Dachau 5018 revers = FAKE
Gestapo Zentralinspektion viereckig Dachau 5018 revers = FAKE
Gestapo Zentralinspektion viereckig Dachau 5018 revers = FAKE.jpg (8.6 KiB) Viewed 8614 times
Gestapo Zentralinspektion viereckig Dachau 5018 avers = FAKE
Gestapo Zentralinspektion viereckig Dachau 5018 avers = FAKE
Gestapo Zentralinspektion viereckig Dachau 5018 avers = FAKE.jpg (9.18 KiB) Viewed 8614 times

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