ID disk info

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LHistorian
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ID disk info

Post by LHistorian »

Howdy all! had a question of how a Erkennungsmarke should look for a 12 SS Panzergrenadier? couldn't find many photos of originals (guess I'm looking in the wrong places :| ) and the few I did find didn't help much...

One big question was I had heard from somewhere that SS personnel did NOT put blood types on there ID disks? and if so, was this also the case for the 12th?

If anyone had some Pics of originals as well as some answers would be awesome to hear!

Thanks mates! :D
die Wille Gottes wird nie nehmen Sie, wo die Gnade Gottes wird Sie nicht schützen.
~~~~~~
Put a German soldier into a box. Close it as tight as you can.

Write on it´s top the warning: " DO NOT OPEN! ONLY IN CASE OF WAR!"
dixiedrummer
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Re: ID disk info

Post by dixiedrummer »

I'd suggest you read this before you have anything made: http://www.dererstezug.com/Erkennungsmarke.htm

Going off of the standard way of doing things, the 12th was made up of guys from Ausbildung und Ersatz Abteilung 12. This was not by any means always the unit, but it was supposed to be the primary AuE of the HitlerJungend. There are multiple ways that these were stamped out. Here is a nice thread on the WAF showing some original examples and markings found on original HJ tags: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... HJ+dog+tag

I will agree that SS tags you see don't have the blood type, as it was supposed to be on the arm.
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peiper1944
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Re: ID disk info

Post by peiper1944 »

I recommend "Tims tags" for German dogtags, he has a complete record book which has
information on nearly every organization which issued a tag, the information is spot on,

As for the 12th alot of their manpower was made up from men from the LSSAH especially
NCO's etc, usually men wore the tag they were first issued so there would be a lot wearing
the LSSAH stamped tag, men who were assigned to the 12th as recruits would be from
Ersatz Battalions so their tag would have SS Ers Btl stamped on it, Ersatz Battalions were
reserve or holding Battalions used to supply the SS Regiments with already trained men
basically, it was a way of the SS to have first pick of the recruits rather than the men
being assigned to the other services.

Good luck, Pipes
Staff-Sgt, British Airborne Pathfinders Unit (Ex SBG)

ww2airbornegroup.webs.com
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LHistorian
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Re: ID disk info

Post by LHistorian »

Thanks fellows!! Hit the nail on the head :D

Did have one last question for you guys on this, My persona that I'm planning on using is one of the Ersatz Battalion recruits, but one that was wanting to go to another branch....Had read that it was sometimes the case from some of the 12th recruits.

for instance I'll have wanted to go into the the Kriegsmarine, studying under the Marine HJ while at a Napola school, but received marching orders instead to report to the 12th SS PanzerGrenadier regiment. Would I have been given a different ID disk then? Or would it still apply even if that was the case, or the fact of getting the tattoo of the information rather than on the ID disk...

Please forgive me if this seems to be too far fetched of a story, but was just a thought o' mine :roll:

Vielen dank Kameraden!
die Wille Gottes wird nie nehmen Sie, wo die Gnade Gottes wird Sie nicht schützen.
~~~~~~
Put a German soldier into a box. Close it as tight as you can.

Write on it´s top the warning: " DO NOT OPEN! ONLY IN CASE OF WAR!"
dixiedrummer
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Re: ID disk info

Post by dixiedrummer »

He would still more than likely have the SS AuE tag. They were issued from where you got your first basic training, which would have been in the SS depots.

That's not at all far fetched. Even the "elite" SS units received replacements from the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe.
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peiper1944
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Re: ID disk info

Post by peiper1944 »

No its not too far fetched as such, admitedly there were a surge of Luftwaffe personnel
transferred to the SS in late 43/44 to cover losses in Russia, these men did have different
dogtags obviously which bore theitr Luftwaffe details which would be kept and as far as i
know these men were assigned to othe SS Units not the 12th whose ranks were filled with
mainly raw young recruits from the HJ (youth movement) plus a nucleus of seasoned
veteran NCO's and Officers from the LSSAH...but these men who were assigned from the LW
were men already trained from Ersatz Battalions,..... you are talking about a Hitler Youth
recruit who has no training as such only with an HJ organization, also it was hardly likely
they would change his branch of service halfway through recruitment for a start imho.

Usually HJ Marines (not KM Ersatz personel) were "earmarked" for service with the
Kreigsmarine anyway and unless there was a good reason this wouldn't change, trained KM
personel as along with other branches of service such as LW, WH etc even if they were
from Ersatz Btl that would be a different story, but someone enlisting from the Hitler Youth
regardless what service he entered ie: SS, LW or what ever would still be sent to an
Ersatz Btl for training as he would still be regarded as a raw recruit regardless what Hitler
Youth organization he came from.

People seem to assume the 12th SS Hitlerjugend were part of the Hitler Youth,
unfortunately this was not the case, the 12th SS Hitlerjugend were in name only due to
most of their recruits started off in the Hitler Youth, the SS 12th Hitlerjugend were part of
the Waffen SS who were a seperate entity all together.

In any case regardless to what youth organization the recruit belonged to previously once
assigned to the SS as a recruit he would be issued an SS dogtag and Soldbuch, the only
information in it showing that he had belonged to the Hitler Youth whether it being Marine
or whatever would be written in his SS Soldbuch under previous occupation, you would
put "HJ-Marine", his dogtag would bear the SS Ersatz details, the Soldbuch would even
bear the SS recruitment code, the district where he enlisted, even the recruitment book
number and page, all this was in code on the bottom first page of the Soldbuch, this
information has been taken from various ref book so please jump in if im mistaken anybody
else, any way hope this has been of some help

Regards Pipes
Staff-Sgt, British Airborne Pathfinders Unit (Ex SBG)

ww2airbornegroup.webs.com
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LHistorian
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Re: ID disk info

Post by LHistorian »

Many thanks Pipes! couldn't have asked for a better response! thanks also dixiedrummer, you guys helped out a ton!

That small history lesson was a tremendous help pipes, covered a few topics I've not heard about before :)

So as just to clarify, I should not put down a blood type on my "Hundemarke" then? and would there be any, for lack of a better term,
be a religious denomination on it? I myself am a Christian, so would that be put on my Soldbuch at all either? which comes to a new question, you folks know of a good place to get a Soldbuch filled out properly?

Thanks ever so much for your guys help.
To the Best! :D
die Wille Gottes wird nie nehmen Sie, wo die Gnade Gottes wird Sie nicht schützen.
~~~~~~
Put a German soldier into a box. Close it as tight as you can.

Write on it´s top the warning: " DO NOT OPEN! ONLY IN CASE OF WAR!"
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peiper1944
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Re: ID disk info

Post by peiper1944 »

Yes sorry my explanation was a bit long but there was no
other way of explaining this, tbh that was the tip of the ice
berg, to understand SS recrument you need to read about
the history of the SS, for intance at the beginning the
Army high command hampered them and gave them poor
quality recriuts until Himmler devised his own recruitment
scheme which resulted in the SS becoming a seperate
organization and cadre of reruits was much better, as for
blood groups this was written in the SS Soldbuch as towards
the end. of the War not all SS soldiers recieved the blood group
tattoo.
Regards Pipes
Staff-Sgt, British Airborne Pathfinders Unit (Ex SBG)

ww2airbornegroup.webs.com
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LHistorian
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Re: ID disk info

Post by LHistorian »

Very cool, thanks Pipes! do you suggest any good books on the matter?
die Wille Gottes wird nie nehmen Sie, wo die Gnade Gottes wird Sie nicht schützen.
~~~~~~
Put a German soldier into a box. Close it as tight as you can.

Write on it´s top the warning: " DO NOT OPEN! ONLY IN CASE OF WAR!"
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peiper1944
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Location: Shropshire UK (The heart of England)

Re: ID disk info

Post by peiper1944 »

LHistorian wrote:Very cool, thanks Pipes! do you suggest any good books on the matter?
The SS by Adrian Weale is a good start it gives you a good outline to the beginnings
and organization structure so you can understand the fundamental changes what went on,
there are others but have not got them to hand at the moment, but that one will tell you
all you need

Good luck Pipes
Staff-Sgt, British Airborne Pathfinders Unit (Ex SBG)

ww2airbornegroup.webs.com
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