Fact, fiction or Grey area

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dog green 1
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Fact, fiction or Grey area

Post by dog green 1 »

Slightly different from the topic above "Questions frm Newbies". Maybe make a Sticky'

List anything you might have heard or read that your not sure if its fact, part fact or a down right fantasy. Hopefully fellow forum members can shed some light. Heres a few to get the ball rolling.

1:Did NCO's carry a shovel as part of the field gear? And did they ALWAYS carry a side arm? If carrying a map case would they do away with one ammo pouch?

2:Would infantry carry all thier field gear into battle? (By that I mean canteen, gas cannister, bread bag, shovel bayonet, bayonet) Or would they take the bear minimum if it was part of a planned offensive. Would the majority of thier gear be brought forward once an attack had gone ahead?

3:Heard somewhere that DAK troops actually prefered regular canteens with wool covers as the wool could be soaked in water which kept the actual canteen chilled slightly. Are DAK canteens rarer than most of us would believe?

4:Did Panzer crews carry MP40's as often as we see at events. I'm sure I just read or saw on TV that most tank crews only took thier MP40 if they were going be be a fair distance from thier vehicle. Also during combat if the vehicle came to a halt they would have grenades outside the turret hatches ready to repel enemy infantry.

5: On a recent history programme a Brittish vetran recalled one of the ways they liked to keep Fritz on his toes was to fire flares. He said it was because the Germans had a love of using flares to signal various actions so this sometimes momentarily confused them? Did the Germans use flares extensivley? More so than the Allies?

These are just a few. I'm sure we'll get questions with no deffinate answers where vetrans accounts go in the face of regulations or common beliefs. However if theres anything you've woundered about stick it up here and see what everyone comes up with.
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Franz repper
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Re: Fact, fiction or Grey area

Post by Franz repper »

Hallo Chris OK I will try to reply to some Questions
dog green 1 wrote:1:Did NCO's carry a shovel as part of the field gear? And did they ALWAYS carry a side arm? If carrying a map case would they do away with one ammo pouch?
Yes as seen by the photo below guy on the right
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Side arm yes they did the bayonet was classed as a side arm ,But in real life no they would not always carry a side arm as each unit would get an allocated number of Pistols and if the NCO was not entitled to use one he would not be issued one

Wearing of the Map case yes they usually would lose one ammo pouch as they wern't as big as us reenactors today
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dog green 1
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Re: Fact, fiction or Grey area

Post by dog green 1 »

Cheers Joel. I was always under the impression that NCO's carried machne pistols. However that first photo appears to prove me incorrect. I'm assuming the rule of the pistols also applied to the likes of MP40's, only so many issued per unit!
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Stigroadie

Re: Fact, fiction or Grey area

Post by Stigroadie »

3:Heard somewhere that DAK troops actually prefered regular canteens with wool covers as the wool could be soaked in water which kept the actual canteen chilled slightly. Are DAK canteens rarer than most of us would believe?

I think so, I've not seen one of the wood fiber 'coconut' models dated before 1943. I look forward to seeing all the earlier dates now I have posted this. How many would have made it to the troops by May '43 when the Axis surrendered? I think rare is the best word.
Damping the wool cover really does work. Cooling by evaporation. Same basic idea as the fridge.

4:Did Panzer crews carry MP40's as often as we see at events.

I think not. How many were issued to each vehicle? Most only got 1 MP I think.
The rest of the crew used pistols?
Should the vehicle be disabled then whould they;
Dismounted the MG's and fight?
Get the hell out of Dodge as foot fighting wasn't their game and they were valued as specialists?

ssparatrooper
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Re: Fact, fiction or Grey area

Post by ssparatrooper »

Flares:

All reibert manuals display the light signals

White (fired straight up) = here is the front line or here we are or wir holding the position or everything is ok

White (fired horizontally at something) = there is the enemy position (used as target indication in the panzergrenadier training film on youtube)

Red = the enemy is attacking or blocking fire needed

Green = fire artillery in front of us or artillery fire is to short

Yellow = enemy tanks attacking

So i would say it would confuse the boxheads for a while if you started firing flares up at night!!!!!!

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dog green 1
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Re: Fact, fiction or Grey area

Post by dog green 1 »

Nice one guys. Particularly like the info on the flares, many thanks
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Zoepf
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Re: Fact, fiction or Grey area

Post by Zoepf »

dog green 1 wrote:Slightly different from the topic above "Questions frm Newbies". Maybe make a Sticky'

List anything you might have heard or read that your not sure if its fact, part fact or a down right fantasy. Hopefully fellow forum members can shed some light. Heres a few to get the ball rolling.

1:Did NCO's carry a shovel as part of the field gear? And did they ALWAYS carry a side arm? If carrying a map case would they do away with one ammo pouch?

2:Would infantry carry all thier field gear into battle? (By that I mean canteen, gas cannister, bread bag, shovel bayonet, bayonet) Or would they take the bear minimum if it was part of a planned offensive. Would the majority of thier gear be brought forward once an attack had gone ahead?

These are just a few. I'm sure we'll get questions with no deffinate answers where vetrans accounts go in the face of regulations or common beliefs. However if theres anything you've woundered about stick it up here and see what everyone comes up with.
1. Absolutley, I even have photos of Officers carrying shovels. And as far as ditching an ammo pouch to carry the mapcase, yes I have seen this done, but it wasn't regulation. More of the wearer's personal preference. I have seen just as many photos where guys still have both sets of pouches and the map case without ditching one.

2. Again, I think a bit of this is going to be personal preference. Maybe if that soldat had lost all his shit before last time he left it behind, he might be more apt to carry everything. Also, I think it just depends on the situation, the soldat, and the unit. If dug in a defensive position for a period of time, I bet alot of guys ditched everything that wasn't neccisary to wear around, since they had it near by. On the move, in an infantry unit, I feel most soldats would carry everything they had all the time. Most German soldiers walked... Not this misconception everyone in the German army rode in half tracks, kubies, motorcycles and tanks like we do. ;P As far as the lucky troops that were motorized, I imagine they left their a frames and or tornisters in their trucks/half tracks and wore whats only neccisary in the field.
dog green 1 wrote:Cheers Joel. I was always under the impression that NCO's carried machne pistols. However that first photo appears to prove me incorrect. I'm assuming the rule of the pistols also applied to the likes of MP40's, only so many issued per unit!
It depends on what time you are looking at, and the role of that NCO. I think I read somewehere that often Platoon Sergeants carried rifles, where Gruppefuhrers carried Mp's. I don't know if theres any truth to that, but if you look at photos, you see alot of NCO's carrying k98s from 39-43. However as the war progressed, more and more Gruppefuhrers were issued Mp40s.

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Heinz O. Kaufmann
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Re: Fact, fiction or Grey area

Post by Heinz O. Kaufmann »

Zoepf wrote:I feel most soldats would carry everything they had all the time. Most German soldiers walked... Not this misconception everyone in the German army rode in half tracks, kubies, motorcycles and tanks like we do. ;P As far as the lucky troops that were motorized, I imagine they left their a frames and or tornisters in their trucks/half tracks and wore whats only neccisary in the field.
Don't forget the horse carts, as these also carried equipment. The main transportation system in Germany during ww2 ;)
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m1steelpot
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Post by m1steelpot »

1. Depends on the NCO, what branch, etc. From photos I would assume they would, but at the same time they may not. I have seen photos and footage showing men going into combat with with no breadbag, no messtin, no shovel, etc. Alot of it was personal preference at the NCO's discretion.

In so far as mapcases, I have seen just the mapcase, mapcase with 1 pouch, mapcase with 2 pouches, russian mapcases, etc. The list can go on. There are truly limitless possibilities in regards to this.

2. Once again, it depends. I would lean towards men going "light." People did what was comfortable, and kept what they deemed important to them on them. I have photos of infantrymen going into battle wearing everything, and at the same times infantry fighting without any gear on. It depended on the scenario and the like. Personally, I don't like wearing Y-straps, so when given the opportunity I do not.

3. "DAK" specific canteens do not exist. Same with "DAK" uniforms. Both are just tropical variants used by the DAK. The "coconut" canteen that is often referred to as "DAK" can be seen often in continental use. I believe the actual DAK had continental canteens for the most part. I have a coconut canteen but never use it. I wish I could without being called a farb... even though I have many pics of them being used.

4. The "on-foot" panzer crew often seen at events is a cliche for me. I feel that when most crews abandoned their vehicles, they did it in a hurry, carrying only their pistols and the like.

5. Flares are fun. I like to see them used.
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