taking over of shows
taking over of shows
hi
im looking for feedback on the "taking over" of shows off of other groups
what is peoples views of this im my eyes "back stabbin" action.
in the past it has happened to shows that are not doing so well
in some cases it can work
but in some cases it has emerged that people "move in" on a show that has just been built up by another group who have organised the show and is allready doing well.
we have had discusions previousely about so called "sticking together"
but i have noticed in some cases some people outside the hobby moving in to make a few bob or two.
im looking for feedback on the "taking over" of shows off of other groups
what is peoples views of this im my eyes "back stabbin" action.
in the past it has happened to shows that are not doing so well
in some cases it can work
but in some cases it has emerged that people "move in" on a show that has just been built up by another group who have organised the show and is allready doing well.
we have had discusions previousely about so called "sticking together"
but i have noticed in some cases some people outside the hobby moving in to make a few bob or two.
95th nacht..attached 85th gebirgsjeager
have enigma ,will travel.
have enigma ,will travel.
Re: taking over of shows
Got any specific instances Les?
Interesting topic. Might turn into a bun fight though - You never know who has an axe to grind out there.
Interesting topic. Might turn into a bun fight though - You never know who has an axe to grind out there.
Re: taking over of shows
No axes to grind on my part (mines still planted in the middle of a*** h*****'s forehead)Interesting topic. Might turn into a bun fight though - You never know who has an axe to grind out there.
Re: taking over of shows
.
Interesting subject Les.
Ksk are very open and transparent when it comes to event/battle organisation.
We have been approached and asked to assist in the running of a number of battles over the years, three events we still give , and are happy to give, our full support - for no financial reward. We do it because we enjoy it, and feel we can help and hopefuly raise the standards for the public and participating reenactors to enjoy , year on year.
A couple of events have gone tits up because certain organisers, and some of them unfortunately reenactors, screwed the financers of such events, putting there own personal gain first and foremost.
Ksk would never knowingly try to muscle in on an existing show, it's not honourable in my books.
Ksk where approached and asked to pick up the pieces from one of these events and help assist in it's organisation for next season. We are still awaiting more info before we can offer our groups services, but if we do , it will be for no financial gain - we do it because we are passionate about the hobby and the reenactment community.
Levisham is a prime example of groups and organisers comming together and providing an excellent event for all concerned with no back biting , political or financial agendas flying about!
Groups may charge for there services, that is fine as long as it is done in an honest contex , without ripping anyone off.
A complicated subject -there are many successful events as we know - but there has been , and I suspect there will continue to be, events that are a bit shady behind the scenes, politicaly as well as financialy.
Ksk are happy to assist and work with other groups and event organisers for the good of the hobby and public enjoyment.
Interesting subject Les.
Ksk are very open and transparent when it comes to event/battle organisation.
We have been approached and asked to assist in the running of a number of battles over the years, three events we still give , and are happy to give, our full support - for no financial reward. We do it because we enjoy it, and feel we can help and hopefuly raise the standards for the public and participating reenactors to enjoy , year on year.
A couple of events have gone tits up because certain organisers, and some of them unfortunately reenactors, screwed the financers of such events, putting there own personal gain first and foremost.
Ksk would never knowingly try to muscle in on an existing show, it's not honourable in my books.
Ksk where approached and asked to pick up the pieces from one of these events and help assist in it's organisation for next season. We are still awaiting more info before we can offer our groups services, but if we do , it will be for no financial gain - we do it because we are passionate about the hobby and the reenactment community.
Levisham is a prime example of groups and organisers comming together and providing an excellent event for all concerned with no back biting , political or financial agendas flying about!
Groups may charge for there services, that is fine as long as it is done in an honest contex , without ripping anyone off.
A complicated subject -there are many successful events as we know - but there has been , and I suspect there will continue to be, events that are a bit shady behind the scenes, politicaly as well as financialy.
Ksk are happy to assist and work with other groups and event organisers for the good of the hobby and public enjoyment.
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The Yorkshire Wartime Experience http://www.ywe-event.info/
yorkshirewartimeexperience@live.com
elitemilitaria@live.co.uk
Mobile : 07413-707121
Re: taking over of shows
this is not new ,
has been hapening for years
just this seems to be the first discusion about it
i dont mind it if a group loses a show to another organiser.
that is life
im just not happy with the underhanded tactics
i have spoken today with a respected organiser in the hobby ..had a long chat
and it was a very educational chat too
he too does not like tha way "under handed" practices work either but respects groups who come out and do it in public and decently with the outgoing group
i respect that thought too
i just dont like it when it is done with no contact with the group allready running the show.
at this stage can i say it has nothing to do with waltham abbey
THAT IS BEFORE THE RUMOURS START
has been hapening for years
just this seems to be the first discusion about it
i dont mind it if a group loses a show to another organiser.
that is life
im just not happy with the underhanded tactics
i have spoken today with a respected organiser in the hobby ..had a long chat
and it was a very educational chat too
he too does not like tha way "under handed" practices work either but respects groups who come out and do it in public and decently with the outgoing group
i respect that thought too
i just dont like it when it is done with no contact with the group allready running the show.
at this stage can i say it has nothing to do with waltham abbey
THAT IS BEFORE THE RUMOURS START
95th nacht..attached 85th gebirgsjeager
have enigma ,will travel.
have enigma ,will travel.
Re: taking over of shows
Hi MateLevisham is a prime example of groups and organisers comming together and providing an excellent event for all concerned with no back biting , political or financial agendas flying about!
Levisham hasnt been immiune to other groups etc trying to muscle into the event after Neil has done all the leg work and some of the underhandedness was nasty to say the least.
Glad to say the person in question isnt welcome at Levisham for the foreseeable future.
And that boys is how you take a penalty.
Re: taking over of shows
Boys
This sort of thing happens in all walks of life.
I'm a sales rep for a builders merchant and work hard for my customers, but there are some Reps from other companies out there that will try and pick up orders without doing the leg work. Anyone can undercut you when they know your price.
Its only later when the custom gets bad service that they come running back, and trust me they do.
I found that being there for the customer as and when they need you and being able to give honest answers even if its not what they wanted to hear, will in the long run work in your favour.
History has shown there will always be those who can smooth talk there way into almost anywhere, look at Hitler or Tony Blair.
The poor event organiser is a bit like the OAP who answers the door to the bloke offering to "Fix the Roof" which wasn't leaking.
It's only after the OAP has handed over the cash that the smooth talker fails to deliver, makes a mess and moves on to the next easy target.
With the country in this recession these types pray of the vunerable, offering to do the job "ON THE CHEAP".
In time they get found out and will be chased out of the area, only to show up in another part of the country and start all over again.
So Les don't loose any sleep over it. They will just think more of you after they have been stung once.
This sort of thing happens in all walks of life.
I'm a sales rep for a builders merchant and work hard for my customers, but there are some Reps from other companies out there that will try and pick up orders without doing the leg work. Anyone can undercut you when they know your price.
Its only later when the custom gets bad service that they come running back, and trust me they do.
I found that being there for the customer as and when they need you and being able to give honest answers even if its not what they wanted to hear, will in the long run work in your favour.
History has shown there will always be those who can smooth talk there way into almost anywhere, look at Hitler or Tony Blair.
The poor event organiser is a bit like the OAP who answers the door to the bloke offering to "Fix the Roof" which wasn't leaking.
It's only after the OAP has handed over the cash that the smooth talker fails to deliver, makes a mess and moves on to the next easy target.
With the country in this recession these types pray of the vunerable, offering to do the job "ON THE CHEAP".
In time they get found out and will be chased out of the area, only to show up in another part of the country and start all over again.
So Les don't loose any sleep over it. They will just think more of you after they have been stung once.
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- grenadier181
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Re: taking over of shows
I like your signature Wayne, that's the Panzerschreck attack we did that one time we came to Bovington, it's nice to know it was so well liked
Re: taking over of shows
Ah - I see where you are going with this Les....
http://www.alliedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4256
and
http://www.alliedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4255
Seems like someone is "revamping" the show..... Have you spoken with the railway? Your outfit is still mentioned prominently and they have you down for organising the battle still.........
Curious........
http://www.alliedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4256
and
http://www.alliedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4255
Seems like someone is "revamping" the show..... Have you spoken with the railway? Your outfit is still mentioned prominently and they have you down for organising the battle still.........
Curious........
- Reich Crispies
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Re: taking over of shows
nene valley railway
as of today i have been informed that
the 39-45 soceity
will not be involved with the runnning of this show
we as a soceity have taken the decision that after four years of moving this show forward to its present state
as in "the most successfull show of it kind on the railway"
we have been replaced by a profit making entity
we moved this show forward to its present state ..for a pure railway profit
but as after the 2010 event one of the main events organisers that was employed at the railway was asked to leave ..(within the rights of the railway)perfectly within thier rights
we feel it has now moved away from what we reenactors where working for
but due to the show taking a new turn that seems to be away from reenactors ...we feel it time to move on to other pastures and help build another show up.
this was done entirely behind the backs of the 39-45 society...we only found out ourselfs by finding the website
im saddened that the present railway staff did not contact us as a society to tell us we where not involved with the organising of the 2011 show.
we will be in contact with the new organisers in the new year
i wish the new organisers good luck in the future show and make it work for the nene valley railway .
as of today i have been informed that
the 39-45 soceity
will not be involved with the runnning of this show
we as a soceity have taken the decision that after four years of moving this show forward to its present state
as in "the most successfull show of it kind on the railway"
we have been replaced by a profit making entity
we moved this show forward to its present state ..for a pure railway profit
but as after the 2010 event one of the main events organisers that was employed at the railway was asked to leave ..(within the rights of the railway)perfectly within thier rights
we feel it has now moved away from what we reenactors where working for
but due to the show taking a new turn that seems to be away from reenactors ...we feel it time to move on to other pastures and help build another show up.
this was done entirely behind the backs of the 39-45 society...we only found out ourselfs by finding the website
im saddened that the present railway staff did not contact us as a society to tell us we where not involved with the organising of the 2011 show.
we will be in contact with the new organisers in the new year
i wish the new organisers good luck in the future show and make it work for the nene valley railway .
95th nacht..attached 85th gebirgsjeager
have enigma ,will travel.
have enigma ,will travel.
Re: taking over of shows
I've actually had a good long hard think about this -
Bottom line - They are not "our shows" - unless of course we put them on ourselves...... They show belongs to the venue or organiser....... Perhaps we didn't ought to be so (generalisation not aimed at anyone) precious about them. The old saying - "As one door closes another one opens" is quite true.
I've experienced what Les is feeling in the past and nowadays it doesn't bother me at all. Shows can get routine and "Samey" - At that point your boys can lose interest and attendance wanes - Organisers want something a little different each year maybe.....
This is another old fashioned, rather entrenched attitude from days gone by I feel. We don't have a right to attend shows - We have to earn it in my opinion. It's the same when someone or some group doesn't receive and invite to something - Where's the big deal really? But many take it as a great offence that they have been "snubbed" etc. It may just be that the event will only take so many, The show may not suit the group/individual in question or the organiser may just have overlooked them..... Yet we all get prissy if we think we are missing out. Stand back folks (not just Les's guys) and look at it from a different angle...... is it really that important?
I don't think we need worry about this. Come summer you will have forgotten it Les and your boys will be happy at another show - you watch.
Bottom line - They are not "our shows" - unless of course we put them on ourselves...... They show belongs to the venue or organiser....... Perhaps we didn't ought to be so (generalisation not aimed at anyone) precious about them. The old saying - "As one door closes another one opens" is quite true.
I've experienced what Les is feeling in the past and nowadays it doesn't bother me at all. Shows can get routine and "Samey" - At that point your boys can lose interest and attendance wanes - Organisers want something a little different each year maybe.....
This is another old fashioned, rather entrenched attitude from days gone by I feel. We don't have a right to attend shows - We have to earn it in my opinion. It's the same when someone or some group doesn't receive and invite to something - Where's the big deal really? But many take it as a great offence that they have been "snubbed" etc. It may just be that the event will only take so many, The show may not suit the group/individual in question or the organiser may just have overlooked them..... Yet we all get prissy if we think we are missing out. Stand back folks (not just Les's guys) and look at it from a different angle...... is it really that important?
I don't think we need worry about this. Come summer you will have forgotten it Les and your boys will be happy at another show - you watch.
Re: taking over of shows
you are correct paul
they are not "our shows"
they belong to the venue
but this thread is not about who owns the show
but the way it is muscled in on by other groups or organisers
nothing sinister in this
simple ..as in the name of the thread
"taking over of shows"
my main point was this
why should another group or organinser
take over an allready well established show that is doing great
without any consultation from the venue owners and the present organiser
i really could understand it if the show was not doing any good..
but what i will ask now is this thread is locked as now from today onwards i think this wil turn only into a spitting contest
please could a mod lock this thread as i think it has run its course
many people have read this and only a few have commented
so i have drawn some conclusions ...
and now the show is not ours anymore im sure we can move on
they are not "our shows"
they belong to the venue
but this thread is not about who owns the show
but the way it is muscled in on by other groups or organisers
nothing sinister in this
simple ..as in the name of the thread
"taking over of shows"
my main point was this
why should another group or organinser
take over an allready well established show that is doing great
without any consultation from the venue owners and the present organiser
i really could understand it if the show was not doing any good..
but what i will ask now is this thread is locked as now from today onwards i think this wil turn only into a spitting contest
please could a mod lock this thread as i think it has run its course
many people have read this and only a few have commented
so i have drawn some conclusions ...
and now the show is not ours anymore im sure we can move on
95th nacht..attached 85th gebirgsjeager
have enigma ,will travel.
have enigma ,will travel.
Re: taking over of shows
Oh I dunno - it's quite a valid thread.
Without knowing all the intricacies of Nene Valley I can't and won't count.
But having been involved in quite a number of venues, large and small over the years I find that people do things for all sorts of reasons...... It may be that at a particular venue - say, a steam railway, they sat down and look at costs. I have actually heard it said at many meetings that re-enactors whilst they pull in the crowds actually cost money. Whereas stall holders, food stands, dances etc. pay to be there and so the revenue is increased - Venues are there to make money to either keep their particular "thing" running or to support charities in some cases....... If faced with filling a field with people paying for the space or a load of loons in smelly wool talking shoite then a lot of them would take the paying people option....... We rarely pay to play so if someone comes along and puts a better business model in front of them it's going to happen. What you describe as underhanded may in fact simply be business confidentiality. I mean someone has to make the approach admittedly but common sense and good practice dictate that you do not announce to all and sundry.
In your case I would say the railway has let you down by not including or informing you. Have you spoken to them? Had any explanation? It's a bit shabby really for them not to make you a stakeholder - I could understand it if you had been failing in your obligations or causing them problems...... but as far as I can see and knowing you guys - there has been none of that..... Have any of you spoken to the new organiser?
I do agree with your last comment - It's done with - move on. It's what I do these days....... I like to spread my sunshine amongst as many folks as I can....... both re-enacting compadres and punters...... variety is the spice of life.
Without knowing all the intricacies of Nene Valley I can't and won't count.
But having been involved in quite a number of venues, large and small over the years I find that people do things for all sorts of reasons...... It may be that at a particular venue - say, a steam railway, they sat down and look at costs. I have actually heard it said at many meetings that re-enactors whilst they pull in the crowds actually cost money. Whereas stall holders, food stands, dances etc. pay to be there and so the revenue is increased - Venues are there to make money to either keep their particular "thing" running or to support charities in some cases....... If faced with filling a field with people paying for the space or a load of loons in smelly wool talking shoite then a lot of them would take the paying people option....... We rarely pay to play so if someone comes along and puts a better business model in front of them it's going to happen. What you describe as underhanded may in fact simply be business confidentiality. I mean someone has to make the approach admittedly but common sense and good practice dictate that you do not announce to all and sundry.
In your case I would say the railway has let you down by not including or informing you. Have you spoken to them? Had any explanation? It's a bit shabby really for them not to make you a stakeholder - I could understand it if you had been failing in your obligations or causing them problems...... but as far as I can see and knowing you guys - there has been none of that..... Have any of you spoken to the new organiser?
I do agree with your last comment - It's done with - move on. It's what I do these days....... I like to spread my sunshine amongst as many folks as I can....... both re-enacting compadres and punters...... variety is the spice of life.
Re: taking over of shows
i understand what u are saying paul about the business sence
we have been in dialogue with the railway
and after xmas we will be in contact with the new organiser.
regarding the money
none of the groups at the show charged for displaying ..
we lost out to the main display area to the new tent
wich seemed to get bigger the next year
not sure how much he is paying ..if he is paying
so now there is no room for any displays
they managed to put on a small dispslay on the front of the railway green
now any groups wishing to display will find it increasingly harder to find room
many now have a "walk on role"
if they did sit down and look at costs they only had a cost of the said battle ...as in ammo and pyro.
as said previousely we and any other group did not charge.
so no costs for reenactors.
paul can u explain how we reenactors cost the venue money?
now what i have learned is the new organiser has offered a cash incentive to groups to show
next year at the venue
therefore the railway will incur costs
unless he is making enough money himself to pay
underhanded .....well i do feel it was underhanded ...as it was discussed last year about how we reenators where being sacrificed for the tent and a promise was forthcoming that it would not hinder reenactors...but still has
i also find it hard how the show is only being advertised on the allied forum only
how come not in here or on the other pozzi forum
are the germans not wanted .
well as for this show we have now moved on and looking forward to the new show we have been invited to next year
dont take long does it ......
we have been in dialogue with the railway
and after xmas we will be in contact with the new organiser.
regarding the money
none of the groups at the show charged for displaying ..
we lost out to the main display area to the new tent
wich seemed to get bigger the next year
not sure how much he is paying ..if he is paying
so now there is no room for any displays
they managed to put on a small dispslay on the front of the railway green
now any groups wishing to display will find it increasingly harder to find room
many now have a "walk on role"
if they did sit down and look at costs they only had a cost of the said battle ...as in ammo and pyro.
as said previousely we and any other group did not charge.
so no costs for reenactors.
paul can u explain how we reenactors cost the venue money?
now what i have learned is the new organiser has offered a cash incentive to groups to show
next year at the venue
therefore the railway will incur costs
unless he is making enough money himself to pay
underhanded .....well i do feel it was underhanded ...as it was discussed last year about how we reenators where being sacrificed for the tent and a promise was forthcoming that it would not hinder reenactors...but still has
i also find it hard how the show is only being advertised on the allied forum only
how come not in here or on the other pozzi forum
are the germans not wanted .
well as for this show we have now moved on and looking forward to the new show we have been invited to next year
dont take long does it ......
Last edited by les hearn on Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
95th nacht..attached 85th gebirgsjeager
have enigma ,will travel.
have enigma ,will travel.