WESTWALD/ARDENNES LIVING HISTORY EVENT - DECEMBER

[Muller]

Ive watched with interest on this one and Paul (D) i wish you and the guys all the best for this event and future events. Although I have to say and I agree with Paul (M) here that i wish someone would put this kind of effort into blank fireing events. There is a bit of a void since Pete Skillman left and i am not sure that air soft is the way forward for ol stick in muds like me

But anyhow best of luck.

[Hoffman Grink]

People aren't putting in the effort for b'f events because - like this one - All and sundry sit on their arses but then begin to detract when someone gets off theirs to do something. Definitely not having a go - but reading the Pozzi pile of recent days it seems that when a question is asked anad honest answers given - there is always some precious little angel who takes exception. One can not be open and honest for fear of offending....

So usual me - I'll call the spade a spade. Nowt wrong with blank fire battles - nowt wrong at all. And we know full well that airsoft weaponry will take time for some to switch on to it. But if no one takes that first step then we will never know - And we are taking that first step (The first steps were actually taken by pure airsofters who had vision and weer fed up of their particular brand of blatfest)

So AFRA is not going to get sidetracked with any debate - neither are they going to challenge established formats - we are simply going to put on a new event combining both elements to see if it works. The simple mechanics of it are - Yes we know it's going to meet some resistance - but in a positive way, we don't care. Unless someone makes the effort and puts on what they want to see - between us and Grauwulf, this is all you got! There is some public comment (as seen here) but there is mroe behind the scenes support. Those who are PMing, phoning and emailing are looking like making this a ground breaking weekend.

[maddog]

People aren't putting in the effort for b'f events because - like this one - All and sundry sit on their arses but then begin to detract when someone gets off theirs to do something. Definitely not having a go - but reading the Pozzi pile of recent days it seems that when a question is asked anad honest answers given - there is always some precious little angel who takes exception. One can not be open and honest for fear of offending....

So usual me - I'll call the spade a spade. Nowt wrong with blank fire battles - nowt wrong at all. And we know full well that airsoft weaponry will take time for some to switch on to it. But if no one takes that first step then we will never know - And we are taking that first step (The first steps were actually taken by pure airsofters who had vision and weer fed up of their particular brand of blatfest)

So AFRA is not going to get sidetracked with any debate - neither are they going to challenge established formats - we are simply going to put on a new event combining both elements to see if it works. The simple mechanics of it are - Yes we know it's going to meet some resistance - but in a positive way, we don't care. Unless someone makes the effort and puts on what they want to see - between us and Grauwulf, this is all you got! There is some public comment (as seen here) but there is mroe behind the scenes support. Those who are PMing, phoning and emailing are looking like making this a ground breaking weekend.

Apart from Tom, cant say there is much detractors (or pile) on the Pozzie forum about this event?

The event is a new concept to most of us, however it sounds excellent, I think everyone needs to give this a chance (even if they dont/cant go), good luck with it.

Wullie

[GRAUWULF]

Well I think it has potential Paul and yes ur right cost of blank ammo is going up so we may all get priced out of that in not too many years. I think that if tacticals all go this way eventually then at least we have the knowledge, enthusiasm and guys to convert our existing sites. You know me I'll try anything - I like my live fire events as much as anyone else and hopefully we can carry on for a bit yet. Above all tho its the getting of people together and making good friendships - that to me is a highlight of this hobby - and remember it is only a hobby and we all have our own opinion.
If I can get Paul I'll come (lend us your minimi!!!!!!!!!!)

[Hoffman Grink]

To Wullie
Wasn't talking about the Westwall thread - was speaking about the topics in General about giving it up, going too far, corporate companies taking over etc. etc. There is potential for good debate there but stifled by self interest and doomongers - No need to defend your domain - as it's no reflection on the pile but rather the people who contribute.

You are right - this shows great promise - it's in the CENTRE of the UK like the last event I tried to organise - a B/F one which people couldn't get to - after I booked the land etc. so I won't be doing that again in a hurry) and it will catch on. There are more supporters than detractors - it's just the nays seem to want to vocalise more than the yays......

Chris - you're right - and we are not forcing this on anyone - There is room for people to do what they wish - and we wish to share the concept of using another tool to augment a living history weekend. BF is becoming more difficult to do - Noise restictions, firearms restrictions et al. As said - far from being elitist this is more accessible tot he masses - After all the Govt. has said you CAN have a RIF if you're a re-enactor..... and they defined a re-enactor for us. So they have helped us to go down this path.

Anyway - I feel this is a seperate debate and is taking away from the thread topic.

We will shortly be posting more details as well as prices, booking and rules along with units and dress regs........ SHoudl be another round of fun posts......

[barnaclebill]

I like my live fire events as much as anyone else

Sorry mate but I think you mean "Blank fire events" Not wishing to be picky but I'd rather not go to a "Live fire event"

My twopenneth worth, any progression, experimentation, evolution of the hobby is worth trying. As said the government have given us the go ahead to do this. The airsoft and reenactor communities can only be stronger, if it works out of course.

Talking as an observer and I admit limited knowledge, personal I've thought airsoft 'guns' have too many shots. 100s if not 1000s in a mag? Now, in an ideal world what I'd like to see is a combined blank/airsoft 'gun'. As an example a MP40 that fires top vent as per a BF that also shoots airsoft BBs (under airsoft mechanisum not blank projected of course) at a 1 for 1 basis. You'd get the realistic BANG together with a 'safe' projectile that scores a hit. No more hiding behind grass! The ammo allocation would be realistic and you'd only fire when when you have a chance to hit, no spray and pray. Best of both worlds but twice the cost unfortunately.... Never going to happen of course!

[Gadge]

It depends on what mags you use.

Most airsoft RIFs have three types available.

'Realcap'
'Standard'
'hi-cap' (bit of a 4 letter word in ww2 airsoft circles.)

Real cap between 10 and 50 rnds depending on what they are for, spring loaded like a real magazine.
Standard as above but often with capacity from 70 - 200
Hi-cap (ewww) around 300 - 600 capacity rattling box that you wind a clockwork mechanism on to make it feed.

(then of course you have some exceptions such as some wiht internal integral magazines and box/drum mags for some support weapons of varying capacity)

A real cap holds between 30 and 50 and can be loaded to hold less. My no4 Lee Enfield take 30 round magazines but as they are individually loaded I could easily set it to ten.

MP40 mags hold 50 as a standard and 110 rnd mag is available... equally both can be loaded to less.

Only hicaps require you to have hundreds in to make the clockwork feed work soundly, they tend to have trouble feeding the last 50 or so.

*However* we have found that given the nature of smoothbore projectiles (the odd one in ten may fly off inconsistently) and the fact that while you cant hide behind grass you can still hunker down behind wood fencing reasonably safely we've found a 3-1 ratio works very well for us.

We limit riflemen to carrying 300 rounds at an event and the supporting LMG 1000 rnds (however 500 of those have to be carried by his ammo bearers/no2s etc)

We also limit grenades carried to between 2 and 4 as obviously a card/explosive stick grenade is a fraction of the weight of a real one.

I dont know how well you guys know Stuart Humphreys, but we invited him along to our airsoft tactical battle on the weekend and he was muchly impressed with the 'realism' of having to react to fire (cos it even stings a bit sometimes which encourages you to keep you head down) and the feel of having rounds whip past you or kick up the dirt in front of you.

Having done a couple of blank battles as well I see the value in both... put it this way a public battle using airsoft RIFs would be pretty pants but equally as a training tool and for private battles I cant really the harm in giving it a go.

For the upcoming event i am perfectly happy to loan any neysayer my MP40 and six 50 rnd magazines on a 'bend it you mend it' basis to try the event out as I'll 99 per cent likely be a Tommy for it with my rifle.

[GRAUWULF]

I like my live fire events as much as anyone else

Sorry mate but I think you mean "Blank fire events" Not wishing to be picky but I'd rather not go to a "Live fire event"

You know what I mean Bill!!! (however live firing would stop some of the arguments about shot taking eh!!! )

[barnaclebill]

It depends on what mags you use.

Most airsoft RIFs have three types available.

'Realcap'
'Standard'
'hi-cap' (bit of a 4 letter word in ww2 airsoft circles.)

Real cap between 10 and 50 rnds depending on what they are for, spring loaded like a real magazine.
Standard as above but often with capacity from 70 - 200
Hi-cap (ewww) around 300 - 600 capacity rattling box that you wind a clockwork mechanism on to make it feed.

(then of course you have some exceptions such as some wiht internal integral magazines and box/drum mags for some support weapons of varying capacity)

A real cap holds between 30 and 50 and can be loaded to hold less. My no4 Lee Enfield take 30 round magazines but as they are individually loaded I could easily set it to ten.

MP40 mags hold 50 as a standard and 110 rnd mag is available... equally both can be loaded to less.

Only hicaps require you to have hundreds in to make the clockwork feed work soundly, they tend to have trouble feeding the last 50 or so.

*However* we have found that given the nature of smoothbore projectiles (the odd one in ten may fly off inconsistently) and the fact that while you cant hide behind grass you can still hunker down behind wood fencing reasonably safely we've found a 3-1 ratio works very well for us.

We limit riflemen to carrying 300 rounds at an event and the supporting LMG 1000 rnds (however 500 of those have to be carried by his ammo bearers/no2s etc)

We also limit grenades carried to between 2 and 4 as obviously a card/explosive stick grenade is a fraction of the weight of a real one.

I dont know how well you guys know Stuart Humphreys, but we invited him along to our airsoft tactical battle on the weekend and he was muchly impressed with the 'realism' of having to react to fire (cos it even stings a bit sometimes which encourages you to keep you head down) and the feel of having rounds whip past you or kick up the dirt in front of you.

Having done a couple of blank battles as well I see the value in both... put it this way a public battle using airsoft RIFs would be pretty pants but equally as a training tool and for private battles I cant really the harm in giving it a go.

For the upcoming event i am perfectly happy to loan any neysayer my MP40 and six 50 rnd magazines on a 'bend it you mend it' basis to try the event out as I'll 99 per cent likely be a Tommy for it with my rifle.

Ah, got ya. Thanks for that. Makes more sense now.

[Hans Gowert]

People aren't putting in the effort for b'f events because - like this one - All and sundry sit on their arses but then begin to detract when someone gets off theirs to do something. Definitely not having a go - but reading the Pozzi pile of recent days it seems that when a question is asked anad honest answers given - there is always some precious little angel who takes exception. One can not be open and honest for fear of offending....

So usual me - I'll call the spade a spade. Nowt wrong with blank fire battles - nowt wrong at all. And we know full well that airsoft weaponry will take time for some to switch on to it. But if no one takes that first step then we will never know - And we are taking that first step (The first steps were actually taken by pure airsofters who had vision and weer fed up of their particular brand of blatfest)

So AFRA is not going to get sidetracked with any debate - neither are they going to challenge established formats - we are simply going to put on a new event combining both elements to see if it works. The simple mechanics of it are - Yes we know it's going to meet some resistance - but in a positive way, we don't care. Unless someone makes the effort and puts on what they want to see - between us and Grauwulf, this is all you got! There is some public comment (as seen here) but there is mroe behind the scenes support. Those who are PMing, phoning and emailing are looking like making this a ground breaking weekend.

Apart from Tom, cant say there is much detractors (or pile) on the Pozzie forum about this event?

The event is a new concept to most of us, however it sounds excellent, I think everyone needs to give this a chance (even if they dont/cant go), good luck with it.

Wullie

yup, hands up on that one,
abit like giving negative feedback on someones for sale thread, its an advertisement, not a discussion

[Hoffman Grink]

You sure have some funny ideas Tom - but you're not on your own. At least we know early not to expect you.

[BaggyPants]

like giving negative feedback on someones for sale thread, its an advertisement, not a discussion

Except only the buyer can give negative feedback when he's seen the goods. You can't leave negative feedback on something you haven't bought

[Hoffman Grink]

Tom can - cos Tom's brilliant - and he's done so much for so many re-enactment groups............................... he left them!

[carentan]

Not wishing to detract from this event, but if a blank firing event is wanted we have to get off are own arses and organise it. Last year there was much talk about Pete Skillman being too far removed from the UK re-enacting scene (him being the other side of the world) to manage an event properly, since then to my knowledge nobody else has taken the lead.

[Hoffman Grink]

Not wishing to detract from this event, but if a blank firing event is wanted we have to get off are own arses and organise it. Last year there was much talk about Pete Skillman being too far removed from the UK re-enacting scene (him being the other side of the world) to manage an event properly, since then to my knowledge nobody else has taken the lead.

You are absolutely right Darren. I'm with you mate - there is nowt wrong with BF - nowt at all. but the ones being organised seem to be undersubscribed - maybe this "credit crunch" we keep hearing about - Maybe folks won't/can't travel - IF so that will affect this gig too -

We have also tried to move this gig to the centre of the UK geographically - place it next to main arterial roads for ease of travel/access and also near enough services to be safe.

WWII airsofters are looking like they are fully behind this - WWII reenactors expectedly have reservations - It's been deliberately announced 5 months in advance to enable people to find the wherewithall and also in order that they can make the necessary adjustments to allow the re-enactor mindset to grow sufficiently to accomodate something new. Not a criticism - I belong to that genre and know the mindset well. Another reason why good notice has been given. We will miss Gow's witty banter and battlefield exploits though...... Shame he ruled himself out so early.