WESTWALD/ARDENNES LIVING HISTORY EVENT - DECEMBER

[Steiner]

The way I see it, you can dismiss this out of hand and watch it from afar; or you can give it a go. Yes, BFs look and sound realistic - airsoft guns look realistic, and you actually hit or miss! There's no argument about it.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a pretty significant moment in reenactment - and somebody has the balls to put on a totally new type of event, which I think deserves at least significant consideration.

If you don't like it, you can always sell your airsoft gun - plenty of buyers - there are nearly 900 registered at Comrades In Arms alone. But don't dismiss it without giving it a go.

[Hans Gowert]

Tom can - cos Tom's brilliant - and he's done so much for so many re-enactment groups............................... he left them!

i wonder how many times your gonna use that one paul..... getting abit sour now

[Hoffman Grink]

Oh I dunno Tom - still raises a chuckle here and there. And besides it was said in fun - must have hit a nerve?
1 Don't spam threads
2 Don't put you head above the parapet
3 Chill dude - it's a hobby!

SO - back on topic - Steiner has some very salient points - If the rug gets pulled on Bfs - it's probably the route we will have to take anyway - and instead of fixating on "It's airsoft" how about fixing on - What will I get out of it? NAd being positive?

Big rider on this - NO one is MAKING you attend and no one is saying it's how it has to be - What we ARE saying is - We are putting this particular gig on and if it suits you or you want to try it - Come along. But equally we are saying if you think you're gonna jump on the tail end and start making changes - forget it. If you ain't gonna buy into it - don't try to louse it up for the ones who are. ALL WELCOME - but with caveats.

[paulmfjr2]

deleted as off topic

[Hoffman Grink]

Deleted in deference to my good friend

[paulmfjr2]

deleted as off topic

[Hoffman Grink]

Partial Deletion

I don' t think it will be the only way to have tactical events - not for the foreseeable at least but it is far more accesible and one could never have a private battle on the scale we are planning - There aren't enough weapons available! The weakness lies in the participants ability or otherwise to immerse themselves into the scenario. And whether or not people decide to cheat...... or shall we say circumvent the rules? Give it a chance PM - come as German Command Staff and look after the FJ contingent at least (or Sector Dora) - A field trip might be arranged........

[Hoffman Grink]

If anyone fancies getting to grips with what it's all about (albeit at an actual airsoft event) then consider this
http://panzergrenadier.net/forum/viewto ... 43&t=11355
The people who started it all off (WWII airsoft) and the best at it so far. More relaxed on kit standards (but not much!) and less concerned about how many stitches on a pocket flap than having a good day out (as it should be)
Could be a good introduction for some.

[Hoffman Grink]

To my delight I see Wullie has been supportive on Pozzi and has adopted a very mature attitude. His comments are welcome.

Scenario is being built NOW.

Research is shaping up nicely and an operation that ended on 3 December is the basis - can't get much nearer than that.

Things will happen quickly now - Lots to do - lot of people to get to commit, Compromises WILL be made - it has to be that way in order to get this thing started. I was at the home of a site operator this evening and he is so fired up by this - Seeing his apprehension first hand made me both a little guilty at the challenge I'm mounting and pleased that it is having effect.
People ARE buying in - I don't think this is exactly momentous but I do think it's a good move forwards. One crowd can see Living History and the other crowd can see airsoft. I know each has a lot to offer and I'm levelheaded enough to know it won't be for everyone - But once we've tried it we can re-evaluate and redesign and find a good range of inbetweens to keep up the interest of both groups, eventually blurring the lines so much that they don't exist.

Developments to come soon now -

Venue is at Tankersley of the M1 J36
Date is Friday 4 to Sunday 6 December
Ball park cost for combatants is £30.00, hot food and drinks included.
Firewood, Straw and other essentials will be provided.
Unsure as to whether to ask support people to contribute £10.00 per head to keep the event solvent but it's looking likely.
Vehicle owners will be assisted or where possible covered with transport costs
Those bringing large props and/or lots of equipment to form HQ areas will also be subsidised/assisted with costs.
Potentially we will collect a good sum of money - It will be put back into the event to provide a fantastic experience. If a small surplus is left, we will keep it in AFRA and re-invest in another event. This is a public statment in order to ensure transparency and honesty - It's how we do things in AFRA.
Vehicles in the pipeline so far include jeeps, kubelwagens, wheeled armour, halftracks and krads....... who knows what else will materialise.

[Hoffman Grink]

Just returned from an in depth recce.

Site is very challenging. It has lots of natural features to make life interesting. Vehicular access is not what we though (quads yes, jeeps no) There is good access to the car park and along the top of the wood. But jeeps etc. will find it difficult NOW to traverse the terrain - in Winter it will be downright dangerous and nigh impossible

So a rethink is underway there...

We can site the HQs in reasonable places and participants will be able to walk in to their positions with their gear (kit list will be built to make this entirely do-able) Added realism will be that units have to be rotated out of the line to be fed..... So some co-ordination by respective HQs is needed.

We have a very clear picture of how it's gonna be put together and today's visit has helped.

We will not give away any of the features as it will spoil the scenarios we intend to put in to add interest...... All we will say is that Allied overflys have suggested there is a Top Secret Panzer Testing Ground which needs overrrunning and any documents available seizing...... But first we have to breach the Siegfried Line!

Folks - don't worry about not being tough enough etc. We've scoped it out and there is enough cover, we will ensure enough materials are on hand and enough warm food and drink is available to keep people safe. we also issue the following
Uniform Regs (what to wear to fit in)
Weapons Regs (permitted bangsticks)
Equipment List (what you need to survive and sleep in safety as well as suggested foods to obtain)
Emergency Equipment List (This is a "kit" to leave set up in your motor in case you can't hack it, the weather turns foul or you just decide you need warming up)
We cover the bases so that it's not too taxing but is challenging enough to feel like you've achieved something.

[SS-Schutze Schuller]

This is a brilliant idea, sounds like heaps of fun, wee bit far for me to come unfortunately. As a reenactor, why limit yourself to only blank firing events? With airsoft, it is possible, in my opinion to create an immersion of a different kind, knowing that you can be hit. Just think of it, you're running along through a forest, then suddenly a BB hits you, you have no idea where from. At that moment, if it were real you would be a dead man, one of the millions of WW2. Sure its a lot of fun but in my opinion, airsoft can show you as closely as possible what combat is actually like, without actually going into combat! It is even better if ww2 limits are applied, e.g how much ammo to be carried, weapon variety etc.

why limit yourself to just one aspect of reenacting? Blank firing gives one aspect of immersion, airsoft the other!

[Sean]

You will know where it came from as you'll hear the guy pissing himself! I found when I was trying to keep quiet the tension that built up made me laugh out loud. No good for covert op's but I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

Good luck with the event as I'm sure it will be a great success.

[Yith]

Just in case anyone was interesting in WW2 rifles. There's a guy making custom ones here:
http://moaurosgunworks.webs.com/currentairsoftguns.htm

They're not perfect copies by any means, but he has K98s, springfields and No4s available.

I have no idea of the build quality or delivery times and have not seem one of these in the flesh.

[sideshowbob]

Well I am definately up for it Paul,and its on my birthday as well !!
I am looking at providing TVP/HVP staff and myself as either medical or HQ where required .
I will see how many troops I can rustle up amongst the lads and what weapons we can get and we will be there to support this event .

I can understand some peoples reluctance to take part ,especially amongst re-enactors who blank fire ( and I am sat at home with 7.62,7.92,8mm and 7.62 russian stockpiled for private events) but it can only be viewed in a positive way .Think of it as a tactical weekend without having to call shots .
Whether it will replace blank-firing events I cannot say and there will always be doom mongers .We were told re-enactment couldnt continue after they changed the law with semi-autos ,pistols ,blank firers etc etc .We are still here and carrying on .

This event needs to be supported as does people who are prepared to put the effort in and arrange events .Lets use this forum as it was intended -to work together for the good of our hobby not as a bitchfest or shit slinging exercise .
End of rant

Andy Marsh
FJR9

[Hoffman Grink]

Herr Marsh - Thanks for your comments and offer of help - Das Medic and his lovely Frau will be Heading up the TVP and your medical staff will be invaluable. As an Alte Haase your involvement on the Hauptquartier Stabs will also be worth more than all the Reichs Gold in Switzerland!

Your post has a lot of truth in it - Blank fire will NOT disappear - at least for the present and this format is a new direction which uses airsoft weapons merely as tools to achieve another aspect. Like you, for years I've attended Privates and let's face it -whilst it's amazing and a buzz to carry real steel Section V - get to let rip with full auto and you hear all the sounds of yesteryear whilst wearing enough wool to clothe three sheep - When your opponent hides behind an elderberry tree or some particularly thick grass, it kind of makes you wish you caould actually tap him on the chest and say "Lie down pal - How many times, have you, liek me, fired at someone and they never even heard it above the clatter going on around them?

This way we are going to get the lesson over of using REAL cover - HARD cover to stop plastic balls pinging off you....... By putting the LIving History Aspect into it we can ADD value to what's already there - By using non lethal weaponry we can continue the experience through the dark hours. The risks are still there but are less - Eye protection, whilst not being authentic can be non intrusive if chosen carefully. IT must be worn - and let's not kid ourselves - if you get shot at close range in the kisser you can lose a tooth! So it's not without risk.

I agree - let's NOT have a bitchfest - THis gig is eminently more accessible than most - If only because you can bring along your own bangstick..... We have said it's open to ALL - and as long as the entrants abide by what we want to achieve they are welcome. WE are adding something NEW to the hobby and that can only be a good thing.

Thank you for your support.