Women On The Battlefield Thread

[LAH650]

I think we should not judge any individual or we would all have to post our impressions pictures for judgement.

We should ask are women acceptable in a combat role?

If yes, what role and what Army/unit.

If no, then what support roles are open to them.

I for one would say No to any women portraying a combat role outside of Partisan or the Red Army.

So that leaves us with Dutch Partisan or a non-combat support role, Medic etc.

If we have one rule for one, we must have the same rule for all…

Then let the floodgates open, because they will.

[bee]

Thanks Pete. As I havent read the thread before it got deleted I can only assume what happened. Someone figured out I was gonna turn up at your event and it started the "whole women dressed up as guys are ruining the show" argument again.

As it seems there is a general opinion of women in combat gear spoiling the show. I can only agree that certain women most certainly do. There seem to be a lot of people willing to make an exception for me. There is also a lot of people judging without having all the facts.

I did Beltring and Llandrindod Wells and I have to point out, that everyone who didnt know me before thought i was a guy and I looked the part.

Tim told me he posted a picture of me in gear in the thread that got deleted, he can do that again, I dont have on here, I'm at work at the moment.

Please contact Paul, Bren and Les and they will tell you their opinions about me.

I would humbly suggest to listen to guys who have actually seen me in battle and give me a chance and have a look yourself in Swynnerton. If anyone is not happy with my impression and can proove this with a logical argumentation, I am willing to compromise and do HQ or Sanis.

Anyone feel free to pm me about this.

[paulmfjr2]

I think we should not judge any individual or we would all have to post our impressions pictures for judgement.

We should ask are women acceptable in a combat role?

If yes, what role and what Army/unit.

If no, then what support roles are open to them.

I for one would say No to any women portraying a combat role outside of Partisan or the Red Army.

So that leaves us with Dutch Partisan or a non-combat support role, Medic etc.

If we have one rule for one, we must have the same rule for all…

Then let the floodgates open, because they will.

I'm afraid I must agree, Bee I have seen the picture posted that has since been deleted and yes you do not look like a 'lumpy' woman, but the point must be made that if you were allowed to participate in the event, then it would leave the gate open for other women reenactors to attend, we can't start making judgemnts on which women are lumpier than others!!!!. Saying that I would be happy to see you participate as a member of the resistance or as an Axis front line medic, but NOT in a combat role.

Sorry,

And if you see a very tall Fj at Beltring or Detling Dig him in the ribs and get him to buy you a beer

Paul

[les hearn]

........but bee has not got the feminine body
there are no "lumps" visible in the kit. .........

........other women dont have the tomboy look
in that case they should not be in combats.....

Les we can't have one rule for one and a different rule for another based on bust size can

/quote]
correct there

but as a show organiser they reserve the right to turn down anyone who does not "look" correct .

now bee does look correct.
again without any disrespect to bee .
"unless you go up to her and grab her in the groin" ,(FOR FUTT SAKE ASK HER FIRST)
when in uniform she does look like a man.
and in her own words

"that everyone who didnt know me before thought i was a guy and I looked the part."

it wont open the floodgates as such as there is allways the option to say no you look to feminine to any women who wants to portray a man .

if they dont like it then they must take it as a compliment

im digging a bloody big hole here .
sorry bee.

[Jon Das Reich]

The logical arguement is that you are a woman dressing up as a man which is wrong within our hobby and that reenactment in general not just WW2.

If you want to take part in private battle events why not attend as a nurse or Helferin and man the HQ or look after wounded etc or is it more to do with wanting to run a round with a bang stick?

The arguement or discussion isnt about if you look correct or not in kit its about women dressing up as men.

If we end up having women dressed up as men we might as well wear what we like and go back to Spanish Helmets and firemans boots.

Judging without all the facts?? what facts are these the only facts i can see is that you are a woman im afraid.

If you mean Paul Dalby opinion then he posted against women dressed up as men.

Anyway whats wrong with portraying a womans role why do you want to dress up as a man for?
Les has posted his opinion.

Also what about the opinions of other who dont agree with cross dressing?

You cannot have one rule for one and another rule for another its no women allowed dressed as men or all, has it wouldnt be fair would it?

[LAH650]

Bee,

Hello, we have not been introduced... yet.

It’s not about you as an individual and whether or not you look the dog’s danglies or not it about women and their historical role and it’s portrayal within WW2 re-enacting.

If we just keep to that and ignore the individual, then women within the German armed forces of WW2 in a combat role is incorrect end of story, however there is full role for women with the support services.

I for one look forward to seeing you in the field hospital, red-cross tabard on helping the wounded of both sides.

[Gott Mit Uns]

........but bee has not got the feminine body
there are no "lumps" visible in the kit. .........

........other women dont have the tomboy look
in that case they should not be in combats.....

Les we can't have one rule for one and a different rule for another based on bust size can

/quote]
correct there

but as a show organiser they reserve the right to turn down anyone who does not "look" correct .

now bee does look correct.
again without any disrespect to bee .
"unless you go up to her and grab her in the groin" ,(FOR FUTT SAKE ASK HER FIRST)
when in uniform she does look like a man.
and in her own words

"that everyone who didnt know me before thought i was a guy and I looked the part."

it wont open the floodgates as such as there is allways the option to say no you look to feminine to any women who wants to portray a man .

if they dont like it then they must take it as a compliment

im digging a bloody big hole here .
sorry bee.

Thats just it though Les, she does look like a woman....I dunno who thought she was a bloke, but they were either having a barf or took their contact lenses out so they didnt loose them in the field. No one is judging Bee on the fact that she wants to dress up as a bloke...just not at this event IMHO. The event is being labled as a living history battle, we've got standards etc and by letting Bee walk right over them is not setting a good example - Despite the fact that her boobs arent (with all respect) that big. But then if we started to judge people on their boob size, most male re-enactors wouldnt be going to this event

Nope, sorry. Women dressed up in a combat role is just not acceptable IMHO - even if you do shave your head As the guys have said, you cant have double standards, otherwise before you know it, people will start getting bitchy and stretch the historical standards etc. Its like Spencer and Pete have said no camo smocks for Heer troops....whats to stop someone from saying "sod it, we've got women dressed as men I'd rather keep dry and hidden with a smock than be "historically accurate" with women who arent". Then everything goes to pot.

Bee - its not that we dont want you to attend this event, its just that we believe you should attend the event in a more historically accurate role. Whether that is in the HQ as a teletypist/radio(woman) or as a flak helfrin etc.

[les hearn]

how far do we take the historic correctness.
if it is all about the fact no german women where in the combat kit
then no germans under a certain height were in the ss.
it is all down to peoples oppinions on who looks like a women or a man.

just as it is on how tall you have to be to be in certain german units.
to be historically corect we can then go and say "oi you aint tall enough"

my point is simply this
she looks the part .

i am having pm's with bee at the moment and i must add i feel i have won more respect for my honesty about what i have said.
i have said what many people have thought but were too scared or maybe polite to say .
many know she is a women
others dont .
i think it is because you all know her as a women you are not allowing her to participate as a soldier.
i feel we must look beyond the fact of her being a women
she can, just as many men can, portray a german army soldier just as good.
and again i must stress not all women can i am not for all women to portray men
as i said to jon, he is correct in the oppinion than feminine women should not be doing men .
its just the same as say a sixteen year old boy can look like a women in drag.

[Gott Mit Uns]

http://shared.armyjobs.mod.uk/JobDescri ... oldier.htm

Male -

Oh look, I wonder why?

The fact is Les, on a H&S basis, women are a liability. The magority lack the strength that blokes have, they get tired faster and they have "issues" in the field. They are also far liklier to get hypathermia etc - especially with German wool uniforms and that with the combination of the rain and mud.

There is a totally non-biased reason for not having women in a combat role during this event. The other being it just aint right in some peoples eyes.

Its harsh but its true.

[Pug42]

i am having pm's with bee at the moment

You dirty old bugger you...

[LAH650]

Les,

It's not about Bee, it's about the line you are drawing in the sand.

Most of us if we are honest would should be re-enacting Volkssturm that’s our age bracket, Kapitän zur See Hans Wilhelm Langsdorff was 45 at the time of his death and was seen as an old man, he had fought in WW1. I am the same age as him and portray a front line solider with an average age of about 20.

It's about men in mens roles and women in women's as it was at the time.

I for one am all for full equality as we have it today, but this is history with warts and all.

As said nothing against Bee, this is not about any individual, just women in inappropriate combat roles.

[les hearn]

http://shared.armyjobs.mod.uk/JobDescri ... oldier.htm

Male -

Oh look, I wonder why?

The fact is Les, on a H&S basis, women are a liability. The magority lack the strength that blokes have, they get tired faster and they have "issues" in the field. They are also far liklier to get hypathermia etc - especially with German wool uniforms and that with the combination of the rain and mud.

There is a totally non-biased reason for not having women in a combat role during this event. The other being it just aint right in some peoples eyes.

Its harsh but its true.

tom
i am sorry to say this but i am taking this post as a joke fella.

please dont qoute health and safety on the fact that women would be cold at night
are the women who are attending going back to the cars ?

ok regarding certain women yes

bee in this case will probably take you out in the feild and walk all over you

just as many modernday women that are in combat roles in iraq now.

i am not on about women full stop but the exceptions.
and bee in my eyes is an exception

this is my last post on this subject as i feel i have made my points and cannot add to em .
only that she does "look" good enough .

if she is not allowed to attend in a combat role because she is a women and only that reason
then i will become a stitch copper at swynnerton and point out as many faults as i can there.
and rubb it in regarding kit and other items that people will be using
that they should not be using


mummble mummble ...now have to make sure everything i take is ww2 era

[les hearn]

i am having pm's with bee at the moment

You dirty old bugger you...

oi not so much of the old


maybe i should change that

[Salerno43]

What was bee going to do as an impression?

If she was going to do Flak Helferin in Luftwaffe combat kit she would be spot on for Arnhem?

http://home.hetnet.nl/~witie/Female%20POW.htm

Anything else is pushing it