Oh the times they are a-changing

General reenactment discussion

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Hoffman Grink

Oh the times they are a-changing

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Or so it would seem.

As groups are becoming more "commercialised" and the hobby swerves to seeming semi professionalism, do groups or indeed those in them see the need to change their approach and attitudes to certain things?

I asked the minibus question as a "sweetener" and it did draw the expected response.

Years ago, groups were tight knit things and the members pulled together VERY closely to achieve things. Nowadays groups are geographically more diverse and it seems to me that mainly individual effort and force of will gets things done. A lot of groups have a tiny hardcore and lots of hangers on (not meant disrespectfully) So with increasing costs, outside pressures and a changing landscape within WWII re-enactment - Is it time for those who want to shine to up their game?

What am I talking about I can already hear some of you muttering.....

Well - Kit. Transport. Props. Vehicles. all that malarkey.

Some groups have a central storage point for vehicles (SBG@ Sittingbourne for example) Some groups own transport (N44 and their "airborne bus) Some groups hire vans and lorries to get kit to shows..... But how is this organised and funded? Someone has to pay the bill....... Did you know that some groups charge as much as £50 or £60 a year membership?????? I have to say (and I'm not naming them) they charge a high fee but the results show...... so does this mean they use the money wisely after paying for insurance/web hosting etc? It must do because they get kit to shows and they put on decent displays with a reasonably large membership.......

Now I'm not advocating putting membership up to people across the board because if you charge, then you have to deliver - I know I wouldn't pay a group £60 nicker a year simply to drive all over the country at me own expense and sit in a field staring at MOPS.... What I am looking to explore and discuss is - "Should groups be looking at how they run themselves in order to continue to thrive?"

Would hiring an industrial unit or even just a storage unit be of benefit to those with mountains of kit? The already mentioned minibus..... Ought it to be a Luton which is used as a kit store and garaged securely? Thus meaning one geezer can bring the entire shebang to a show in one hit (please - doom-mongers - don't start with the negative scenario of "what if the driver's ill and can't make it?" because I didn't specify A driver I said one geezer - there could be three or four or more drivers designated)
Should subs be ring fenced and an actual policy stated for where the money is going to be spent to better benefit the membership? i.e. Insurance, webhosting, admin, van hire, buying props/fuel/ammo/pyro etc. other......

Is there anyone out there who can be bothered to think beyond "what am best hat" and actually take time to think about the future?

I doubt it.

manstein
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Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by manstein »

i know in fg39-45 we all share the display between us and each bring a little bit so it is not down to one person to lug it all about

saying that we are looking at getting another luton after our last one was stolen a couple of years ago with all the display in it, which we have replaced and some bits made even better by members at there own expense, the new luton will be stored in a secure storage area where one of our members work.

the van will have all the large items that take a lot of room to store, road barriers, tressel tables, chairs and the such like.

the insurance and mot tax etc for the van will come out of unit subs each year, which each member is in full favour of as it helps the group and leaves room in cars for the smaller items that make the display homely

we only pay a small amount in subs each year and this covers the insurance and a monthly newsletter to all members and what ever is left over is spent over the year getting new bits for the display over the year (little odds and sods that you can pick up at shows to make it look better).

we are only a small group but everyone gets on with everyone else and helps in their own little way to make a good display and to better the group which is our main thing all the time
scott p v
Generalfeldmarschall Erich von Manstein
member of fg39-45
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Hoffman Grink

Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Scott actually thinks beyond "what am best hat" then.... :D (seeing as he already has best hat!)

manstein
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Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by manstein »

Hoffman Grink wrote:Scott actually thinks beyond "what am best hat" then.... :D (seeing as he already has best hat!)
we all think the same in the group and their are those with better "best hats" than me just mine has the most bling :P
scott p v
Generalfeldmarschall Erich von Manstein
member of fg39-45
http://www.feldgendarmerie3945.webs.com/
http://feldgendarmerie3945.freeforums.org/index.php

barryG
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Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by barryG »

In our group, the main bulk of the display is brought by two members in their lorry/trailer.... thats vehicles and all the large items. The rest of us are working to help improve our display and bring the smaller items along to each show. We have had the very discussion you started this thread with, and I can say KP1 is very much looking to the future and working out how to improve and importantly stay in the game :wink: as we have a great hardcore of people.

The minibus thing just wouldnt work at all, far too geographically diverse.
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Hoffman Grink

Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by Hoffman Grink »

barryG wrote:
The minibus thing just wouldnt work at all, far too geographically diverse.
What about a bus pass???? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh I forgot - Steve borrows Cookies!!!!! :o

meyer

Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by meyer »

What about a bus pass????
Oh I forgot - Steve borrows Cookies!!!!!
leave cookie alone he's old :lol:
ps whats a bus :?: ......... ah ok looked it up in the re-enactors dictonary "a large smelly car used by old people" Hmmmm so i looked up old people it said " see cookie and paul d" :lol:

Hoffman Grink

Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Cast thy bread upon the waters ..... and a fish shalt thou catch. :lol:

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dagda
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Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by dagda »

You are right Paul! We do two foreign trips, well three, Finland with the Nord boys, and pip and Beltring with FJR6 and it costs a fortune. How and ever the group members love these gigs, and want it! Closer to home, yes its major hassle to sort stuff out, but we limit our gigs so we can get everybody and everything to the show that we are doing. We are going to Duncannon this weekend, a few of the lads have taken time off work to drive all over the fucking place to sort stuff out, and why do we do it? Because we love what we do and we have pride in what we want to achieve! Theres the rub!
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Jaws
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Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by Jaws »

Herr Grink,

Why do you say, "semi professionalism" :!: :?:

This is still a hobby. If you have a group member who can bring a tank on a articulated low loader, then whoopie, result. But if four or five of "your" group get together and share your knowledge/experiences and still have a good time with basic kit and a couple of rifles then that too is a good result. Whoopie! Don't you think?

"hiring an industrial unit or even just a storage unit be of benefit to those with mountains of kit?" No. If you do that, your gear ain't at home to admire, dirty, weather, polish, let the dog sleep on etc.

Subscriptions... folks join two or three groups then cherry pick the best, over a year or two they ditch the groups that don't deliver...

Happy regards,

Gary.
S.A.S.A.B.
Society Against Splinter A Bandoliers

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dagda
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Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by dagda »

Anyway Money,commercialism, whats that! load of me bollix!!
You're losing.you're losing, you're losing your vitamin c

Egyptian Kings packing their things!!

I keep this picture to keep my hate strong!

http://www.heavenandhell.org.uk

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Hoffman Grink

Re: Oh the time they are a-changing

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Jaws wrote:Herr Grink,

Why do you say, "semi professionalism" :!: :?:

This is still a hobby.
Really? IF you still believe that Gary then you are more naive than I thought. And I don't mean that disrespectfully. Lots of people seem to be of the same opinion. While the "hobbyists" serenely enjoy their weekends - there is a whole mini "industry" which funds its activities from various "services" to events and by charging fees for things............ but that's another can of worms I think.

Our organisation recently amazed a venue when asked what our fee was - And our reply was "NOTHING. But we would be happy to receive a donation to funds, at your discretion, AFTER the event if you are happy with what we provided" I like to think that's old school and the venue certainly appreciated it. We can proudly say we don't do it for the money. We can also say we do it for the right reasons (Whatever they are) and that we have something worth more than money as a result. Trust.

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Reich Crispies
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Re: Oh the times they are a-changing

Post by Reich Crispies »

Our organisation recently amazed a venue when asked what our fee was - And our reply was "NOTHING. But we would be happy to receive a donation to funds, at your discretion, AFTER the event if you are happy with what we provided"
Not sure if we stole that from you or visa-versa, but agree completly :wink:
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Gadge
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Re: Oh the times they are a-changing

Post by Gadge »

PBI is really run on a shoe string.

Dieselmonkey runs out forum and website and generally takes the cost of that on hsi own shoulders, I tend to sort the foodout for events and while I tend to *nearly* breakeven it usually ends up costing me a bit to make sure everyones fed. Scaleyback runs the van and tends to stump up the petrol himself and I tend to store the kit when its not in the van.

On the rare occasions we get paid (and we generally only ask folk to cover the diesel and food receipts if they can) it goes straight back to the gus who forked out originally.

We generally make about £10 a head on private battles but again we're usually back on the breadline again once we've paid for pyro, the cost of building props (flat pack machine gun bunkers cost us more than they thought they would!)

I'm always staggered when I find out that some fairly shoddy display at an event has cost the organiser over£200 to have in his field (which usually involved six octinagarian paras drinking tea behind a rope).... I just dont think I coudl bring myself to do that (the cheek of 'fee' like that i mean, not the tea drnking... although I'm usually busy doing 'bren gun training' with the kids all day!)

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Ropes
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Re: Oh the times they are a-changing

Post by Ropes »

I think Upping the game with regards to those things is part of it Paul. But I also think people need to start looking at what they want out of this hobby. Is it just about dressing up on a weekend or do you want somthing more? There needs to be a clearer line between for what the most part people see reanctment/living history as and what it really is. In WW2 soldiers did not set up camps with all there kit neatly displayed and start informing the locals about there equipment,unit history and branch of service then pop off to the beer tent at night.


This is not living history:


Image


This is:


Image


Before somone says "Anyone can take a good picture" that isnt my point. Its that going to a public event,dressing up, answering the same questions over and over,having a blat and finishing with the beer tent isnt living history. Sure you get to teach the public a bit about history fine. But what do YOU learn from it? Learning and putting things into practice outside of public events (training,tacticals,private battles) is where you begin to experiance how the people who wore your uniform for real felt and acted and you can learn a hell of a lot more from that. Not that public events dont serve a purpose. Educating the public is important, there great for everyone to meet up/ go shopping and sink a few drinks together. But for the most part (in the UK atleast) they are sadly where reenactment starts and ends.

Apologies for use of the pics I just used what I could find to ilistrate my point.
Image

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