The Great SS Debate.....

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Sturmschar
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Sturmschar »

:D Thats why I love you Paul :oops:
Always keep the boot of destiny aimed at the arse of anticipation!
Hoffman Grink

Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Hoffman Grink »

:lol: That's why I love me too Dear Hart! :mrgreen:
Merry Snodgrass and a Slappy Blue Ear!
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Cruiser
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Cruiser »

I feel lucky that I've been able to meet some of the most genuine and decent people whilst doing WW2, especially Axis.

Getting acceptance from our peers tho will always be fraught with difficulties, as is the case with all WW2 and other periods.

Just as an insight, on another forum, a couple of years back was an ex WW2 guy who decided to go do Medieval, he sort of hooked up with a group (very losely) but went on this particular forum to get a handle on things (I'm not going to name him), he was a bit problematic as he just bought what he thought looked cool and did away with any research, his kit spanned about 400 years, and when questioned about this he came up with, what can only be described as an excuse with verve and imagination to justify his look, he was a gem, there was never an uninteresting post ( a lot of peeps thought he was a pro-troll) and he outraged the Medivalists, and they tried to bait him, they tried to malign him but he carried on regardless. In fact they tried every trick in the book but he wouldn't play ball or bite, in itself a real acheivement.
However, then things turned a bit sinister, every forum has a hidden, only open to a chosen few area, and this forum was no different (and yes, for a short spell through an admin error I was able to saunter in there and have a nosey, and no, not to post and give myself away) the main movers and shakers (or so they like to think) had done some digging and found this guy was ex Axis, SS in fact, and they also found out that he worked in a sensetive profession, and they were seriously thinking of trying to use this against the chap as a way to get at him/ rid of him. And it stemmed from him being ex Axis re enactment, talk about petty politics in action, but ones that could have serious consequences, luckily I don't think it finally came down to it, can't be sure though because I got outed shortly afterwards.
Axis or Heer doesn't matter to a lot of people who have hidden agendas, they use the 'living memory' excuse, but I personally have yet to come across a vet with a marked and vocal dislike.
I am the bane of pointy stick forums, thrice banned for honesty, hater of internet re enactors ( you know, the ones that know everything but never do an event).
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KapitanPrien
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by KapitanPrien »

Cruiser: However, then things turned a bit sinister, every forum has a hidden, only open to a chosen few area, and this forum was no different (and yes, for a short spell through an admin error I was able to saunter in there and have a nosey, and no, not to post and give myself away) the main movers and shakers (or so they like to think) had done some digging and found this guy was ex Axis, SS in fact, and they also found out that he worked in a sensetive profession, and they were seriously thinking of trying to use this against the chap as a way to get at him/ rid of him.
That reminds me very much of the Iott scenario that happened here in the U.S. I happened to find out about that via 'The Blaze' site and was appalled. I know I cannot do much as I don't portray W-SS, but I support having them at events that are fitting to them for historical accuracy. The most I did was, when that incident happened with Iott, to write to both of the politicians badmouthing him. I had also wrote a letter of support to Iott too.

As I said, being involved in the Kriegsmarine (particularly U-Boat) puts me way outside of the vast majority of these situations, which is why I don't get involved - but if there is something that happens and I feel I can to a degree, I do.
"German submariners were first class - there has never been a better submarine force than the German." - General Douglas MacArthur
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Steiner
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Steiner »

So, is it a belief that some other reenactors actually think Axis reenactors are Nazis?? :roll:
"Stop that!!! Careful with my J-J!"
Stigroadie

Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Stigroadie »

No, it's a pretty hard fact.
To the extent that wives and girlfriends of guys who were, now just allied, German re-enactors are tarred with the same brush.
Membership of a group was denied on the grounds that their boyfriend had at one time been a FJR re-enactor. They didn't want that type of girl in their unit. One that would associate with a Nazi.
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stefan
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by stefan »

No, it's a pretty hard fact.
To the extent that wives and girlfriends of guys who were, now just allied, German re-enactors are tarred with the same brush.
Membership of a group was denied on the grounds that their boyfriend had at one time been a FJR re-enactor. They didn't want that type of girl in their unit. One that would associate with a Nazi.
PLEASE TELL ME THAT'S NOT TRUE :shock: :shock: :shock:

Because I've heard some sh@t excuses about Axis etc etc but that takes the cake the only reason I can think they would come to this
conclusion is the apply the same standard to reenactment to others as themselves i.e. they think they are "real soldiers" :roll: and think
German reenactors are real NAZIS........god it beggars belief :o
Gott Mit Uns
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Gott Mit Uns »

I did abit of Brit re-enactment over the Summer. And I can honestly say some of them were more "Nazi" than the actual Nazis. Honestly - some of the stuff they came out with you would just never hear anyone I know in German re-enactment say. I also found the average attitude to be very boys own commando comic - which left me and a mate of mine a little weirded out. To top it off, during one evenings entertainment I interceeded between a young lady being harrassed by a drunken pest and his brother, and because I was known to be a German re-enactor this upset the tard even more and he tried to pick a fight. Having since been to a militaria fair a few months back, these "gents" now make a B-line towards me shoulder barging and goading me into throwing a punch. Its abit laughable really, but then you can understand that not every Allied re-enactor is like that - the same way not every SS or WH re-enactor is an anti-semite.

Although that aside, even worse if someone else was to have had a similar situation say in SS or WH uniform, and was to have thrown a punch... automatically we look the bad guys. Just glad this wasnt the case.
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Steiner
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Steiner »

Should not this issue be discussed with Allied reenactors ? (i.e. the fact that we are not Nazis)
"Stop that!!! Careful with my J-J!"
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Brigardefuhrer
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Brigardefuhrer »

Steiner wrote:Should not this issue be discussed with Allied reenactors ? (i.e. the fact that we are not Nazis)
Well you could but I feel it would fall on deaf ears,saying that there are some good allied units out there that treat you as a 'good enemy'and opponant.During WW2 the population was encouraged to hate the hun and 'racist remarks'that all germans were nazi's,from the very young to the very old.This attitude did not dissapear when peace was signed in 1945 and was passed on to their children and then their children and so on,I still hear people today say "I hate Germans",even though they have never met any.And yet these same people call me a 'nazi'and in the same breath vote BNP :lol:
This same attitude exists for collectors as well,if you collect TR militaria you are 'labled' as a nazi,saying you have an interest in history doe's not change their minds.
John.
"I require able bodied men,with good horse and gun.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.
wittmann
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by wittmann »

Have been following this thread with interest and thought l would add my pennys worth as an outsider who has also come across this problem.

l am not a reenactor and not a member of any group, but l am a member of the UK Tank Club [ Radio Controlled Tanks ] and many of you guys have seen us at various shows.

Many people [ mainly reenactors ] when seeing the tanks suggested ........."if your driving a replica WWII German Tank maybe you should wear a Panzer Wrap. So when people enquire about the tanks you could also explain that "this" was the uniform the German Tankers wore"

As we are a club and not a reenactor group we pondered on this for quite a while, but finaly decided to give it a go. We approached Paul for his advise and subsequently purchased Wehrmacht Wraps etc, we even had UK Tank Club Cuff Titles in Gothic script made up. Many months later we " Paraded" in front of Paul who gave us "the nod" and that was that............wrong.

War & Peace Show 2006 was the first time we wore them out in public, photos were taken and the shit hit the fan thereafter. "SS Political Wing of the UKTC, Tank Club Nazis, SS Cuff Title Members, etc etc" and all of this was from our own members. To say we were shocked was an understatement but rather than tell then to F**k off [ my usual response ] we went to great lengths to explain why and what we were doing, and even tried to explain the differences betweeh Wehrmacht and SS Wraps and the UKTC Cuff Title etc. All of this fell on deaf ears as they werent interested, and had made "their minds up".

After the 2006 War & Peace Show a few of us got invited to a 1940`s dance. We asked if we could wear Axis gear [ because of the above fiasco ] and were told "yep no probs", so we attended the event suitably attired and were promptly snubbed and ignored all night. Everybody else at the dance was dressed in allied gear and the only person who spoke to us was a German guy dressed as a Tommy, who was also being snubbed because he was German.

It doesn't matter what group you are a member of [ or not in my case ] or what you do, or what you say . lf you wear German uniform, particularly SS uniform you are going to be branded by certain people as undesirable and will be shunned and abused by them as much as they can make possible.

There is no answer to this problem lm afraid because you cant educate people who don't want to be educated. Just keep your hands in your pockets and smile [through gritted teeth].

lf you cant beat them and don't want to join them then just continue doing your own thing.

Chris.

P.S. If any of you are passing the UKTC area at a show then pop in for a brew, as you will allways be made welcome.
Hoffman Grink

Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Hoffman Grink »

If anyone else wants me to nod at them - I'm available weekdays until 4 and all day Saturdays..... Donations to a Forces Charity welcome.

Hiya Chris!

It's good fun being the baddies though innit? We got the best tanks! Perhaps we all ought to remove the birdies and hakenkreuzen and have rat's anus badges made....... See if it has an effect?

See - it's emerging there is a "problem" and it's one of perception and prejudice.

Speaking of Tanks Chris........... :wink:
wittmann
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by wittmann »

Hoffman Grink wrote:there is a "problem" and it's one of perception and prejudice
Allo Paul mate,
been a while innit.

Yep perception and prejudice are the Key words indeed.

A perfect example of this :-

A mate of mine and l have an interest in FJ so got ourselves kitted out [ Correct splinter ] and at show [ no names no... etc] we went into part of the reenactors area that had cafes etc. We approached a particular cafe hoping to get a brew and were told "We dont serve your sort here".

So, keeping my usual "Well F**k You Too" well in check, we went back to our area, got changed into Tank Club Clobber [ Fleece, Baseball Cap etc ] and went back to the same Cafe with two RC Tanks. We were again aproached by the same person who this time couldnt have be friendlier.

After a good bit of banter between us we were asked if we wanted a brew, so l said "Didnt think you served our sort". Confused look on proprieters face which went bright red when l said "Yeah, we were the two Nasties who you wouldnt serve earlier".

After much shock, horror, bluster, bullshit and backtracking later l couldnt resist a parting "Stick your tea up your a**e" and drove off into the sunset with a wide grin on my chops.

Obviously this person had initialy recognised the FG uniform and was Prejudiced against it straight away. But when we returned half an hour later in "Civvies" we were percieved us as being ok.

Zero out of ten for not recognising my ugly mug though

So yes, there is a "problem" and it is one of perception and prejudice. l do feel for you SS Reenactors l really do but your not alone in this. The problem goes much deeper than the Runes.

Me, well lm just gonna keep on tankin.

Chris.
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Brigardefuhrer
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by Brigardefuhrer »

Recently aquired a 1/16th Heng Long Panzer MkIV F2,not as grand as the 1/6th and quarter scale beasts you boys own,but as my first r/c tank its ok! :lol:
"I require able bodied men,with good horse and gun.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.
les hearn
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Re: The Great SS Debate.....

Post by les hearn »

[quote="wittmannA perfect example of this :-

A mate of mine and l have an interest in FJ so got ourselves kitted out [ Correct splinter ] and at show [ no names no... etc] we went into part of the reenactors area that had cafes etc. We approached a particular cafe hoping to get a brew and were told "We dont serve your sort here".

So, keeping my usual "Well F**k You Too" well in check, we went back to our area, got changed into Tank Club Clobber [ Fleece, Baseball Cap etc ] and went back to the same Cafe with two RC Tanks. We were again aproached by the same person who this time couldnt have be friendlier.

After a good bit of banter between us we were asked if we wanted a brew, so l said "Didnt think you served our sort". Confused look on proprieters face which went bright red when l said "Yeah, we were the two Nasties who you wouldnt serve earlier".

After much shock, horror, bluster, bullshit and backtracking later l couldnt resist a parting "Stick your tea up your a**e" and drove off into the sunset with a wide grin on my chops.

Chris.[/quote]


so there lies the problem

it isnt the person its the uniform

well to all so called allied and some whermacht (yes whermacht cos they are also against us) reenactors who hate what we do ,..you are in the wrong futting hobby...
95th nacht..attached 85th gebirgsjeager

have enigma ,will travel.
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