70 years ago

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Steiner
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Re: 70 years ago

Post by Steiner »

John Wilson wrote:Please bear in mind, it WAS Britain and France that DECLARED WAR!
Correct. Poland was attacked without a declaration of war from Germany.
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John Wilson
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Re: 70 years ago

Post by John Wilson »

Poland wasn't attacked, neither was the Sudetenland.
Both places were just given a lot more populace quickly, one didn't mind so much, the other one threw a hissy fit.
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Reichsmark
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Re: 70 years ago

Post by Reichsmark »

The Pocket Battleship Graf Spee

Not a story with a happy ending, but as the anniversary approaches i thought it one worthy of mention, please feel free to add interesting bits of related trivia?

Four days after a battle with three British Warships the German Pocket Battleship Graf Spee was scuttled by it's commander in the estuary of the river plate on December 17th 1939.

The Graf Spee was at sea when war was declared on Sept 3rd, and in the three following months sank 9 merchant vessels.

She was located off the river Plate estuary by three British Cruisers (Exeter, Ajax, & Achilles) on December 13th and battle ensued.
During the engagement the Graf Spee scored hits on each of the Royal Navy Vessels, the Exeter was so badly damaged it had to break off the engagement and make for home, though the Graf Spee had suffered light damage herself and Captain Langsdorff decided to make for Montivideo in Neutral Uraguay for repairs.

While in Port, intercepted fake messages from the Royal Navy convinced Langsdorff that a large fleet of enemy ships were massing outside the estuary. Not wishing to sacrifice the lives of his crew in a futile engagement, he decided it would be better to scuttle the Graf Spee, which he did on December 17th in full view of the world media whom had assembled in Montivideo hoping to get a view of the forthcoming battle.

After learning of the deception Capt. Hans Langsdorff committed suicide two days later!

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Tychsen
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Re: 70 years ago

Post by Tychsen »

JW
Both places were just given a lot more populace quickly, one didn't mind so much, the other one threw a hissy fit.
The Sudetenland was never a part of Germany , never - please understand this , it was never a part of Germany and it was negotiated away.
As far as not minding goes just remember that these lands were never ever a part of Germany.
Also remember that there was no German minority in Prague.
PS The planning to take Prague began before the ink was wet on the Munich Agreement.

Poland threw a hissy fit - she had a perfect right to , please seed above.

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Tychsen
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Re: 70 years ago

Post by Tychsen »

Plans to recover the wreck of Graf Spee have been totally abandoned.

Peiper

Re: 70 years ago

Post by Peiper »

Maleme wrote:....not forgetting Churchill's ultimate betrayal of Poland (a country for whom we went to war for to protect it's sovereignty) by allowing the Soviet Union to keep that part of Poland it was to invade two weeks after the start of the war.

It is now part of Western Ukraine... the part where the major proportion of Polands II Army came from....an Army who sacrificed many lives at Monte Cassino.

To save a major embarressment to Britains foreign policy the Polish Army was not invited to participate in the Victory Parade in London in 1946......
Hi lads :D
In agreement here, throughout the War Poland had the crappy end of the stick, not content with murdering all the Polish
officers and Intelligentsia at the start of the War the Soviets purposely stood by and watched Warsaw get flattened and
its defenders get killed when it could have gone in to help in 1944, even though the Soviets were only a few KM away at
the time and countless pleas for help were sent to them, the Russians sat back and did nothing :roll:

Cheers Pipes

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Tychsen
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Re: 70 years ago

Post by Tychsen »

Stalin had his own agenda - and what was the West to do , attack the USSR having just been bled white seeing Hitler defeated ?
When Norway was invaded they were within an act of sending support to Finland - and the position Hitler forced the West and Russia into - well it was never quite a comfortable or marriage which was based on trust and affection was it.
The Cold war happened very bloody quickly , it started before WW2 ended - Stalin was not trustworthy and Churchill knew it.
The end of WW2 was not perfect nor was it always fair just as WW1 was not Poland lost in the east and gained in the West - she was occupied before the Russians got to Berlin and there was little the West could do about it , that was the reality of the situation.
The end game of WW2 has only been played out in recent years when , Poland got rid of the Russians ,the eastern block fell apart , German came together again and the last of the dictatorships were overthrown - all of these were unfinished business from a situation which Hitler had set in train from waging a war which allowed Stalin to park his T-34's on the banks of the Elbe River.
It is only by the grace of God that at some time in the years in between war did not break out again and it was close on several occasions if you look around the world in the cold war period you can see evidence of the major powers confronting each other indirectly - Korea being one such place and perhaps the most WW2 like.
With a war still going on against Japan what would you have done - fought Russia , indirectly she was fought and was brought down in a war which she could not win , eventually she fell from within , America broke her economically.

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