New Group: Charlemagne Division

[Peiper]

Merci Kiler, thanks for the intrest, hope you have a look at the website,
the e/mail adi is at the bottom of the site banner.

Regards Pipes

[les hearn]

nice website allready peips
but should point out
about insurance ..you state ..."is optional" ..i think you should add it as condition of entry
as nearly all major shows require some form of pli for entry

[Peiper]

nice website allready peips
but should point out
about insurance ..you state ..."is optional" ..i think you should add it as condition of entry
as nearly all major shows require some form of pli for entry

Thanks for the heads up Les, i'll change it mate.

Cheers Pipes

[JDR]

I remember I`ve read about soldiers from Charlemagne in a Polish book about fighting in 1945 in Kołobrzeg (Kolberg). I don`t remember this part exactly, but it was something about POW from this division and how lucky they were to be captured by Poles and not by Russians. When I find the book I`ll try to write more.

Good luck anyway.

The book in question is Ashes of honor. Jean Mabire.

Ive got a copy of the book an excellent read.

[Peiper]

I remember I`ve read about soldiers from Charlemagne in a Polish book about fighting in 1945 in Kołobrzeg (Kolberg). I don`t remember this part exactly, but it was something about POW from this division and how lucky they were to be captured by Poles and not by Russians. When I find the book I`ll try to write more.

Good luck anyway.

The book in question is Ashes of honor. Jean Mabire.

Ive got a copy of the book an excellent read.

Its also called "Division Charlemagne" (see pic)

Charlemagne Div book Jean Mabire.jpg (48.45 KiB) Viewed 3571 times

Cheers Pipes

[kiler]

I remember I`ve read about soldiers from Charlemagne in a Polish book about fighting in 1945 in Kołobrzeg (Kolberg). I don`t remember this part exactly, but it was something about POW from this division and how lucky they were to be captured by Poles and not by Russians. When I find the book I`ll try to write more.

Good luck anyway.

The book in question is Ashes of honor. Jean Mabire.

Ive got a copy of the book an excellent read.

You mean that I wrote about this book ? Nope, I`ve wrote about "Na drodze stał Kołobrzeg" (Kolberg was in our way) by Alojzy Sroga. Its about fierce fighting in this city from Polish soldier`s point of view. I will qoute the excerpt about this Charlemagne POWs as soon as I get this book in my hands.

[KB Martinsen]

The book in question is Ashes of honor. Jean Mabire.

Ive got a copy of the book an excellent read.

Don't you mean Christian de la Maziére? Or is that a different book about a French volunteer in the Waffen SS?

[THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER.]

Nice website pipes, wishing you all the best for the future of this new group.
cheers ! Jeff.

[Peiper]

Nice website pipes, wishing you all the best for the future of this new group.
cheers ! Jeff.

Danke kamerad

Pipes

[kiler]

Well, I finally found the book I wrote about and there are some excerpts about 33rd Panzergrenadier Division. I don`t know if it will be new information for you, but here goes:

The division was formed in July 1944 from LVF members and rememnants of 7 SS Brigade (you write on your page that it was 8 SS brigade). Nominal commander, general Puaud, was viciously called “colonel” by Germans. The actual commander was German SS general Krukenberg. Division reached Czarne on 25. of February. After only about 30 hours of fighting with general Panifilow`s Russian 3 Tank Corps they had over 3000 casualties. After this slaughter only front guard of Charlemagne commanded by Krukenberg reached Białogard on 5. of March. The main forces of about 3000 soldiers with Puaud also tried to get to Białogard, but while trying to reach the forest near the village of Byszyno they were caught in the open field and massacred by tanks and 120mm mortars. General Puaud was last seen near the forest at about 14.00, he was wounded in leg and needed help of another soldier to move. The rear guard of division (about 100 soldiers) commanded by French Marshall de Bourmont`s descendant was missing (most probably none of them survived Czarne slaughter).

Kołobrzeg (Kolberg) was reached only by a group of about 600 grenadiers commanded by German lieutenant Ludwig and Swiss division`s communications officer, lieutenant Bueler (they both reached Kolberg on damaged DKW motorcycle). Colonel Fullriede, Festung Kolberg’s commander, ordered them to form remaining grenadiers in one unit, but initially only half of them wanted to continue fighting and only after they got some sleep. First reaction to Ludwig and Bueler calling them to stand up was (it is a quote from the book):

- f… off from us,
- let us sleep,
- we have enough of this brothel.
- let Germans kiss us in our a… .

Most of them had frostbites and their uniforms and guns were badly damaged.

I haven’t read the rest of the book yet and don’t know if there are other excerpts about this unit’s behaviour during battle of Kolberg, but when I do, I’ll try to write more.

There is also a fragment about the interrogation of POWs from 33rd Division by Polish officers I earlier wrote about. Most of them claimed that they were drafted by force. One told that he was a force labour worker in Third Reich and impregnated a German girl so they told him to choose: Charlemagne or Konzentratzions Lager. Other claimed that he got to the unit by mistake, because he thought it will be only a police unit. The interrogators also found a kind of testament with one of POWs. It contained the motives why he joined Charlemagne. It ended with (my rough translation):

I know I can die, but I want to serve this great and holy cause.

but he didn’t want to tell what was this “cause”.

They also told that they were afraid to surrender because the threat of execution by Germans (as deserters) and Russians (as SS soldiers). That’s why they only surrendered to Poles. They even started to suck up to interrogators stating that after war Germany should be divided and Poland should get Saxony .

The autor also mentions book "Les Heretiques" by Saint Loup as some reference, however he claims it is full of propaganda. Hope this will be useful

[Peiper]

Thanks for your intresting points "kiler"!!

Just a couple of pointers, the original French SS Unit was the 8th SS Volunteer Sturmbrigade France, not the 7th as you
say, this was before along with the Wehrmacht LVF French contingent they were combined into its last formation the 33rd
SS Panzer Grenadier Division Charlemagne.

As for Commanders, these varied because the Unit went through a lot of changes before it metamorphed to the 33rd, the
men themselves were for the most part ex French Military, either POW's or Vichy Foreign Legionnaires (see web-site for
details), although there were a few "Volunteers" from forced labour in Germany (IE: West Wall etc)

And as for sucking up to their interrogators, i cannot say but i will say there were only 30 (approx) survivors from the entire
Division when the Charlemagne threw in the towel on 2nd May 1945, they were the last SS Unit still fighting and the last to
surrender so i would imagine that the ones that did "suck-up" as you say were the exceptions to the rule, infact 12 SS
Charlemagne captured prisoners were shot without trial when asked by a French General "Why do you wear a German
uniform" ??

The answer from the grizzled French SS-Unterschar was "Why do you wear an American one" ??

Needless to say this response was not well recieved and the Free French General promptly had them all shot, the Free
French General was General Leclerc and the monument to the 12 executed men still stands to this day (see my web-site for
more details and pics?)

Regards Peiper

[kiler]

Well I`m sure there were soldiers who really believed what they were fighting for but also there were a lot of people who were forced to join - it was nothing uncommon in Third Reich of 1944-45 - thousands of Poles from occupied lands were given German citizenship and told to choose between Wehrmacht and Konzentratzions Lager for them and their families. Later lots of them risked their lives and diserted to join Polish Second Corps to fight against Germans.

I just thought it would be interesting to look at this unit from other perspective than most of western authors present.

[Steiner]

I also saw a program on TV (can't remember which) where it said that young lads from the occupied west who had got into trouble with the law were given the stark choice of prison or joining the Waffen SS.