From green to splinter (B of course!)
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From green to splinter (B of course!)
Quick question: was there a point in time when all green FJ Knockensacken were replaced by Splinter pattern ones? e.g. would it be wrong or just very rare to portray a Normandy 44 FJ in a green Knockensack ?
"Stop that!!! Careful with my J-J!"
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Jagdpanther
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Re: From green to splinter (B of course!)
From original photos there seem to be plenty of early green ones in use right up to the end of the war...
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Jagdpanther
- Posts: 235
- Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:09 pm
- Location: Worcestershire
Re: From green to splinter (B of course!)
Like these chaps in Normandy...Jagdpanther wrote:From original photos there seem to be plenty of early green ones in use right up to the end of the war...
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Re: From green to splinter (B of course!)
Due to supply problems, many FJ in Normandy were issued with green step-in smocks - from the photographic evidence, they appear to be fairly common amongst the enlisted men (so not just a case of 'alte hase' wearing them to show veteran status).
SASAK - the Society for the Abolition of Splinter A Knochensack
Re: From green to splinter (B of course!)
Brilliant, thanks for your replies, Kameraden. 
"Stop that!!! Careful with my J-J!"
Re: From green to splinter (B of course!)
Photo is Italy,not Normandy
Re: From green to splinter (B of course!)
Regardless of that particular photo origins the analysis still stands!
You're losing.you're losing, you're losing your vitamin c
Egyptian Kings packing their things!!
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Egyptian Kings packing their things!!
I keep this picture to keep my hate strong!
http://www.heavenandhell.org.uk
Re: From green to splinter (B of course!)
After Crete and through the campaign in Russia Green smocks started to be phased out but came back in strength in '44 without ever having stopped being issued.
Talking to some vets I think this "Alte Hasen wearing their early Green smocks for status purposes" is something that was made up along the way, I think. The fact, as it was told to me (and also makes sense), is the the old guys would have first pick of the new and improved material, leaving the new recruits with the old and not so practical stuff. Nothing is absolute of course.
You see many Normandy photos with Fj in green smocks.
IMO, for reenacting, if one had only a green smock he could portray all periods with no problem.
Talking to some vets I think this "Alte Hasen wearing their early Green smocks for status purposes" is something that was made up along the way, I think. The fact, as it was told to me (and also makes sense), is the the old guys would have first pick of the new and improved material, leaving the new recruits with the old and not so practical stuff. Nothing is absolute of course.
You see many Normandy photos with Fj in green smocks.
IMO, for reenacting, if one had only a green smock he could portray all periods with no problem.
"Always keep your words soft and tender, one day you may have to eat them".
Re: From green to splinter (B of course!)
As the scousers would say CALM DOWN CALM DOWN
Regardless its Italy not normandy and Anzio May 44 not the end of the war
Yes green step in smocks warn till the end but not a good photo to show that
Regardless its Italy not normandy and Anzio May 44 not the end of the war
Yes green step in smocks warn till the end but not a good photo to show that
Re: From green to splinter (B of course!)
I think you have to look at what time a unit was formed or re-formed (and reequiped)... For those troops in the West (France)...
Forinstance most units that were trained and (re-)formed in late 1943 (Fsj Regt 6 and 3rd Fsj Div forinstance) were equiped with the Fsj Splinter B jumpsmock in France, but some - most likely the veterans that were still with to unit to train them (The 'stamme') might still prefer to wear their stuff they had. This might have been also the green Kreta jumpsmock. I have seen photograps of v/d Heydte himself in France in Splinter B but also in the green smocks...
5th Fsj Division is a different story as they did (already) not have equipment enough so that is why a lost of men with 5 Fsj Div do wear a mix of Fsj and LW (incl Feld Division) stuff.
2nd Fsj Division arrived much later in France - august 1944 - and most likely to be re-equiped but most of them did still wear the stuff they had from Russia.
6 Fsj Division I do not know what they had for uniforms in France.
When 6 Fsj Regt and I/Fsj Regt 2 were re-equiped in september 1944 most men were wearing the spinter B pattern Fsj smocks. Ofcourse some old school veterans might have prefer their green jumpsmocks but that is rare.
The remnants of 6 Fsj Division were reintergrated into 7th Fsj Division. I do think they did wear a mix of splinter B and the green (Kreta) smocks. another possibily is that thoise who had already a smock (a green one) was already equiped and therefore only the new recruites got he splinter B version.
As there was a lot of shortice I do not think you can pich another smock if you already had one... So from september 44 onwards you wear what you had.
Another interesting unit in Holland by 1944 was the Fallschirmjäger Lehr Regiment (Kampfgruppe Herrmann)
who had seen batlle with as part of 6th Fsj Div in France. From what I can see they did wear a mix of the green (Kreta) smocks by the 'old school' (or stamme) of the Regiment while there are also a lot of photographs of men wearing the LW Feld Division Tarnejacke. Those who joined the unit (new recrutses) did just wear their LW blue uniform (Fliegerbluse) and in some cases the Zelthbahne, so no jump smock what so ever.
After that (late 1944/early 1945) units were (re) equiped what was available. Realize also that most units then operating as Fallschirmjäger were just LW ground crews and airfield defence forces, or those from Flak units but now without guns - no longer needed and were regrouped into a Fsj Division and most of them were not equiped mith any Fsj uniforms but did just wear what they had. So in 1945 you see a lot of blue uniforms and long blue coats.
What you can see on a lot of photographs is that when isued with some kind of uniform then a whole group do wear the same uniforms, so if a unit got new uniforms them its most likely the complete unit was reequiped at the same time. In what size this re-equipment happened I do not know. This could have been Kompanie by Kompanie, or Battalion by Battalion, (so one Kompanie is wearing the Splinter B, while another Kompanie is still wearing the earlier model jumpsmock). If a unit was not reequiped and send to the front then its possible that forinstance 1 Kompanie was wearing the Splinter B while the 2nd Kompanie was still wearing other stuff.
I think that from august 1944 units were equiped what was available. And that already started with when 5th Fsj Division was formed.
Most important is that you first do study after what unit you like to do and what time period and you will see that each time period has its own interesting and % of uniforms been worn
Most difficult is I think to make the good agreements within a group who is wearing what uniform to get the correct mix... Because 100% the same uniform I think is not realistic.
Forinstance most units that were trained and (re-)formed in late 1943 (Fsj Regt 6 and 3rd Fsj Div forinstance) were equiped with the Fsj Splinter B jumpsmock in France, but some - most likely the veterans that were still with to unit to train them (The 'stamme') might still prefer to wear their stuff they had. This might have been also the green Kreta jumpsmock. I have seen photograps of v/d Heydte himself in France in Splinter B but also in the green smocks...
5th Fsj Division is a different story as they did (already) not have equipment enough so that is why a lost of men with 5 Fsj Div do wear a mix of Fsj and LW (incl Feld Division) stuff.
2nd Fsj Division arrived much later in France - august 1944 - and most likely to be re-equiped but most of them did still wear the stuff they had from Russia.
6 Fsj Division I do not know what they had for uniforms in France.
When 6 Fsj Regt and I/Fsj Regt 2 were re-equiped in september 1944 most men were wearing the spinter B pattern Fsj smocks. Ofcourse some old school veterans might have prefer their green jumpsmocks but that is rare.
The remnants of 6 Fsj Division were reintergrated into 7th Fsj Division. I do think they did wear a mix of splinter B and the green (Kreta) smocks. another possibily is that thoise who had already a smock (a green one) was already equiped and therefore only the new recruites got he splinter B version.
As there was a lot of shortice I do not think you can pich another smock if you already had one... So from september 44 onwards you wear what you had.
Another interesting unit in Holland by 1944 was the Fallschirmjäger Lehr Regiment (Kampfgruppe Herrmann)
who had seen batlle with as part of 6th Fsj Div in France. From what I can see they did wear a mix of the green (Kreta) smocks by the 'old school' (or stamme) of the Regiment while there are also a lot of photographs of men wearing the LW Feld Division Tarnejacke. Those who joined the unit (new recrutses) did just wear their LW blue uniform (Fliegerbluse) and in some cases the Zelthbahne, so no jump smock what so ever.After that (late 1944/early 1945) units were (re) equiped what was available. Realize also that most units then operating as Fallschirmjäger were just LW ground crews and airfield defence forces, or those from Flak units but now without guns - no longer needed and were regrouped into a Fsj Division and most of them were not equiped mith any Fsj uniforms but did just wear what they had. So in 1945 you see a lot of blue uniforms and long blue coats.
What you can see on a lot of photographs is that when isued with some kind of uniform then a whole group do wear the same uniforms, so if a unit got new uniforms them its most likely the complete unit was reequiped at the same time. In what size this re-equipment happened I do not know. This could have been Kompanie by Kompanie, or Battalion by Battalion, (so one Kompanie is wearing the Splinter B, while another Kompanie is still wearing the earlier model jumpsmock). If a unit was not reequiped and send to the front then its possible that forinstance 1 Kompanie was wearing the Splinter B while the 2nd Kompanie was still wearing other stuff.
I think that from august 1944 units were equiped what was available. And that already started with when 5th Fsj Division was formed.
Most important is that you first do study after what unit you like to do and what time period and you will see that each time period has its own interesting and % of uniforms been worn
Most difficult is I think to make the good agreements within a group who is wearing what uniform to get the correct mix... Because 100% the same uniform I think is not realistic.
Last edited by Pietje on Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
