33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Peiper

Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Peiper »

Cheers Cookie :D
Thanks for the tip about the Croix du Combattants.
Although i have seen pics of the blue and white colonial ribbon
and the Medaille Millitaire being worn, i was going to base my impression
on this image.
Regards Peiper.

Vincent
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Vincent »

Just a quick question,
I'm considering putting together a "beer tent" untersturmfuhrer uniform, to go with a really nice ss crusher I have. Basically the plan is an M44 blouse with Italian camo trousers, for the Charlemagne division. Although from reading this thread I'm thinking they wouldn't have had Italian camo, would I be correct in thinking this?

Cheers
Vince

Cookie
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Cookie »

Vince,

Yes, neither the Sturmbrigade Frankreich or the later 'Charlemagne' Division had anything to do with the Italian front. To wear an M44 tunic would place you in 1945 for the French SS and therefore well within the time frame for the unit to get issued with Pea dot camo trousers. These, worn with an M44 tunic and ankle boots would be a good impression. Mix in a tank destruction badge, an infantry assault badge and a wound badge, with an EK2 ribbon and you would be spot on. Bear in mind though that neither the Sturmbrigade nor the Charlemagne ever got issued Close Combat bars.

Regards
Mark A - AFRA
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rednas
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by rednas »

Cookie wrote:Bear in mind though that neither the Sturmbrigade nor the Charlemagne ever got issued Close Combat bars.

Regards

Is there any reason behind this?
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Cookie
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Cookie »

Yeah, they never had any to issue. A couple of guys were awarded them but they never got to wear them. It was the same with the knights cross. A couple were awarded, and had to be fixed up from EKII's.
Mark A - AFRA
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42gunner

Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by 42gunner »

Here are some loadout examples, late war, M44 dot, Stg44 rifleman

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G43 Rifleman
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Peiper

Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Peiper »

Some good pics gunner :D

But going from archives and pics ive seen the Charlemagne were from
research only seen to wear the pea dot trousers and no helmet covers
only the M42 stahlhelm, apparantly camo clothing was in short supply
and the Charlemagne were on the low list of priorities.

Also the lateness of the unit formation and time period (late 43-45) was a
contributing factor, see below for a pic of Cookies great impression which
ive "borrowed" lol. :wink:

Berlin_Charlemagne.jpg
Berlin_Charlemagne.jpg (123.23 KiB) Viewed 28693 times


Pipes
Last edited by Peiper on Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Hans Gowert
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Hans Gowert »

pukka photo

Cookie
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Cookie »

Guys,

By the time the French 'sturmbattalion' went to Berlin there were plenty of guys with pea dot suits. These were mostly the men from the 57th Batl/Regt who had volunteered to go. They were also mostly veterans of the SS Sturmbrigade Frankreich (so got preferential treatment over the rest). The remaining guys who went to Berlin, from the 58th Batl/Regt and the 33rd Pionere Company where issued a number of pea dot items resulting in most just getting the trousers or jackets only.
As said before, and above, the unit, from its first inception as the sturmbrigade in 1943, to its final days in Berlin, was never issued camo helmet covers. There are no photos of anyone in the unit wearing them.
Also, as the unit was only raised and equipped in 1943 it was issued all new gear from stores - the M42 steel helmets had no decals whatsoever. Later on when the unit merged with the Werhmacht sponsored LVF, a few men had earlier pattern helmets - some of which featured field applied tricolor shields on the side. These would have been very rare by 1945.
Note that by the time of the Berlin battle the unit was chronically short of gear, most particularly steel helmets and entrenching tools. These had been ditched in large numbers in the units retreat from Pomerania.

I couldn't see the photos you posted as it said your 'bandwidth was exceeded'?
Mark A - AFRA
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Cookie
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Cookie »

A selection of the gear I use for my 'French SS in Berlin' impression...

Waffen-Unterscharfuhrer, 33rd Pionere Kompanie, "Sturmbattalion Charlemagne"...

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M43 tunic with late-war, mouse grey collar litzen and black piped (engineers) shoulderboards.
Standard W-SS runes collar patches and arm eagle, with SS pattern Tricolor arm shield.
BeVo made "Charlemagne" cuff title - worn in limited numbers by men of the combat engineer company after their return from training in Hradishko, Czeckoslovakia, prior to fighting in Pomerania. Also worn by a few NCO's and officers who attended training courses.
Vichy issue ribbons for the Croix de Guerre (green) and the Croix du Combattant (blue/black).
Mark A - AFRA
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schwarz engel
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by schwarz engel »

read pour l europe, by robert forbes published in 2000 printed by redwood books , trowbridge , wilts. prob available second hand now , unless republished?
349pages some pics, plenty of unit imfo,price at the time 34.95
enjoy

Cookie
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Cookie »

I've had that book in my collection for some years now thanks.
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LAH650
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by LAH650 »

Not sure if Cookie has posted this one..... 8)

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For all things French Cookie is your one stop shop.... :wink:

aussoldat
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by aussoldat »

Cookie fantastic pics you have there and also your groups web site is top notch. Love the set of the Battle for Berlin.

Mooyman
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Re: 33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

Post by Mooyman »

Nice picture 8) expecially the one with the 2 foreign volunteers....
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The best repro is an original...

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