knobhead questions this I am sure ... but ...
in the late war, infantry regiments seemed to be classified as either fusilier or grenadier. what marked the difference between the two? Is panzergrenadier and grenadier designations interchangeable? what about the waffenfarbe?
also, what function did Jaeger units have? they are commonly listed as "light infantry", right?
grenadier/fusilier etc
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Hoffman Grink
OhGOd!
This is gonna be good.....
Yep - Panzerfusilier Regiments were in existence.... Panzer Grenadier and Grenadier were late war terms for infantrymen nad I think the distinction was one (pzGr) were motorised or in armoured transport and the others were foot soliders, stubble hoppers, landsers.....
The word as applied to police is GendErme as opposed to GendArme... Feldy will bob in and give you background on that...
A Jaeger or Jäger is a hunter and so light infantry would fit that role quite well - I think a lot of these terms were "morale boosters" and were designed to instill a bit more backbone into guys who had endured 3 sometimes 4 years of this sh1t..... although I'll happily stand correcting on this....
This is gonna be good.....
Yep - Panzerfusilier Regiments were in existence.... Panzer Grenadier and Grenadier were late war terms for infantrymen nad I think the distinction was one (pzGr) were motorised or in armoured transport and the others were foot soliders, stubble hoppers, landsers.....
The word as applied to police is GendErme as opposed to GendArme... Feldy will bob in and give you background on that...
A Jaeger or Jäger is a hunter and so light infantry would fit that role quite well - I think a lot of these terms were "morale boosters" and were designed to instill a bit more backbone into guys who had endured 3 sometimes 4 years of this sh1t..... although I'll happily stand correcting on this....
I think it strange how many napoleonic terms came to the fore, and light infatry "Jaeger" seems to correspond with the skirmishers from the 19th century.
however I do want to know the difference between a fusiler regiment and a grenadier regiment. My guess is that the grenadier regiment was given heavier armaments and the fusiliers were more approximating regular infantry?
and volksgrenadier was something different again
however I do want to know the difference between a fusiler regiment and a grenadier regiment. My guess is that the grenadier regiment was given heavier armaments and the fusiliers were more approximating regular infantry?
and volksgrenadier was something different again
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tutburytim
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I always believed fusileers and grenadiers to be purely titles as Fwbl said to raise morale as things looked bleak. Sounds better than schutze dont it? A bit like you get fusileers and grenadiers in todays British Army. Its a way of linking to traditions and past glories but thats all.
May be wrong but believe panzer grenadiers were a whole different kettle of fish as they were created to work with expanding armoured divisions etc whereas the others were non specialised just 'line infantry' who had their titles upgraded. They had no specific roll as either grenadiers or fusileers.
May be wrong but believe panzer grenadiers were a whole different kettle of fish as they were created to work with expanding armoured divisions etc whereas the others were non specialised just 'line infantry' who had their titles upgraded. They had no specific roll as either grenadiers or fusileers.
the man who put the dig in dogging
Gendarme is a bastardisation of a Middle French expression gens d'armes, literally meaning 'men of arms'. Genderme is merely a spelling variation from the high medieval period, when the spelling af the the latter part of the French expression was either ermes or armes (it also occurs in English manuscripts of the same period spelt in both forms when describing men-at-armes/men-at-ermes).Fwbl Dollman wrote:The word as applied to police is GendErme as opposed to GendArme... Feldy will bob in and give you background on that...
I'll have a dig and see what else I can find on the etymology of the words.
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LHA members
When the Infantry divisions were re-structured they went from 9 infantry battalions to 6 which were re-named as Grenadiers, this being a purely morale boosting exercise as the Grenadier company was always the elite within a regiment. the other elite was the light company which stood at the oposite end of the line, which could be called various titles including jager and fusileer, although jager is a term more comonly used for specialist light battalions rather than companies. To give the new re-organised Volks-grenadier division some mobility and a reconaisance element without spending much money and resources, it was also given a Fusileer battalion, with bikes, often also given a number of the newer weopons such as MP44s.
Of course giving the division elite sounding names, and a handfull of MP44s could never make up for the reduction in Numbers and quality of replacements, but thats what they tried to do.
There were also Fusileer regiments in the early war army, but this, like in the british army had no effect on organisation and was simply the tradition of the individual regiment.
Gliderinf
Yanks LHG
( Hy everybody, first post on this forumn)
Of course giving the division elite sounding names, and a handfull of MP44s could never make up for the reduction in Numbers and quality of replacements, but thats what they tried to do.
There were also Fusileer regiments in the early war army, but this, like in the british army had no effect on organisation and was simply the tradition of the individual regiment.
Gliderinf
Yanks LHG
( Hy everybody, first post on this forumn)
from what i've heard Grenadier replaced Stulze in 1942 because of a change of directive from Hitler. He wanted all infantry units to return to a being Grenadier regiments, which they had been under Fredrick the Great. As for the orginises of the title Grenadier i haven't a clue but it's probably something to with cannons or early grenades. As for Jagers, Jager is hunter in German and was applied to Mountian troops and also Rifle Battalions.
Stabsgefreiter Martin Hetch-2nd Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung, Grossdeutschland.
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Steve Das Reich
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As most posters have already stated the titles of Grenadier/Fusilier, are very old terms to describe troop types, C16th century onwards used in many European armies.
The grenadier was exactly that a soldier whose job was to lob grenades at enemy positions, he was also usually a veteran of many campaigns and a big man too, they formed elite companies within their battalions.
The fusilier started life at a similar time, his original role was to guard the artillery train, however as the matchlock musket was prevalent at the time, he was armed with an early form of flintlock known as a fusil (sp), the idea of a slow burning match being near the gunpowder not being so good.
AH wanted to inspire his lads by re instating these old names back into the WH.
The names were just a morale boosting term, what sounds better ? Landser, grenadier.
Steve
The grenadier was exactly that a soldier whose job was to lob grenades at enemy positions, he was also usually a veteran of many campaigns and a big man too, they formed elite companies within their battalions.
The fusilier started life at a similar time, his original role was to guard the artillery train, however as the matchlock musket was prevalent at the time, he was armed with an early form of flintlock known as a fusil (sp), the idea of a slow burning match being near the gunpowder not being so good.
AH wanted to inspire his lads by re instating these old names back into the WH.
The names were just a morale boosting term, what sounds better ? Landser, grenadier.
Steve
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tutburytim
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Yeah, the old grenades used by grenadiers looked just like the ones in the cartoons. Black balls wit a burning fuse in it! Also the reason you see the Prussian guard grenadiers in mitre caps (And other armies for that matter)comes from same era when they brought pointed or mitre hats into use as the wide brimmed and tricorns got knocked off when the grenadier threw the grenade. The Prussians kept their mitre caps for cermonial untill 1914. Pretty much the same as keeping the titles.
the man who put the dig in dogging