24th May 1941 .
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SchnellMeyer
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Re: 24th May 1941 .
Hi Joe , there are plenty of places near me to stay in .Drop me a PM with the dates that you may travel on and I will sort out the rest for you .I promise you that you will be well looked after , yes Co. Kerry is a super place to see but can you imagine coming here to see the sights and my collection also !!!! The rest is up to you my Kamerad.
Kampfgruppe Sud:Irelands Largest German military vehicle and
re-enactment group
Re: 24th May 1941 .
As a footnote to the catalina which located Bismarck, she went missing in 1942 flew of from Lough Erne and FTR , her crew are listed on Runnymede , when time allows I will add their names and a phot of the aircraft.
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SchnellMeyer
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- Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:15 pm
- Location: Ireland
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Re: 24th May 1941 .
On a final note let us not forget Kplt Herbert Wohlfarth and the crew of U 556 . Both the Bismarck and U 556 were built by the same company and there was also contact between both crews , so much so that U 556 " adopted" the Bismarck and "promised" to protect her .
Sadly when U556 was returning from her patrol in the Atlantic , she was to witness the complete destruction of the Bismarck by the Royal Navy . This was the first German account about the loss of the Bismarck .
U 556 was lost on 27.6.41 but most the crew survived including the CO Herbert Wohlfarth , four crew lost their lives .
Herberth Wohlfarth and the crew were POW's until 14.7.47 .
Herbert lived out his life in Germany and passed away in the mid 1980's .
Sadly when U556 was returning from her patrol in the Atlantic , she was to witness the complete destruction of the Bismarck by the Royal Navy . This was the first German account about the loss of the Bismarck .
U 556 was lost on 27.6.41 but most the crew survived including the CO Herbert Wohlfarth , four crew lost their lives .
Herberth Wohlfarth and the crew were POW's until 14.7.47 .
Herbert lived out his life in Germany and passed away in the mid 1980's .
Kampfgruppe Sud:Irelands Largest German military vehicle and
re-enactment group
Re: 24th May 1941 .
Wohlfarth had Renown and Ark Royal in his cross hairs and had only empty tubes.
As he said in a post war interview " I could do absolutely nothing".
Wohlfarth's war diary records his sighting of Force H on the 26th , by which time they had launched their strike against Bismarck and had succeded in crippling her.
He describes sending out a sighting report at 2039 on the 26th and trailing them at top speed until 2200 hrs.
At 0000 hrs on 27th he recorded in his diary - "Wind northwest force 5 , sea way 5, rain squalls , moderate visibility, very dark night. Surfaced. What can I do for Bismarck ? I can see star shells being fired and flashes from Bismarcks guns. It is a terrible feeling to be near and not to be able to do anything. All I can do is to reconnoiter and lead the boats in that have torpedoes. I am keeping contact at the limit of visibility, reporting the position and sending directional signals to call up the other boats"
( It is likely what Wohlfarth saw ( By way of star shells and gunflash) was the night attack by Vian's destroyers).
At 0352. "I am moving around on the eastside to the south, in order to be in the direction of the activity. I soon reach the limit of what i can do in view of my fuel supply. Otherwise I won't get home."
0400 - "The seas are rising ever higher. Bismarck still fighting. report weather for the Bismarck."
At approx. 0630 Wohlfarth sighted Kentrat's U-74 and passed on to him all that he had seen transferring the mission to him.
He added " I have not seen her directly. You assume contact. I have no more fuel." After signaling a greeting Wohlfarth turned away.
His war diary records "Around 0630 gave last contact report , sighted U-74, by visual means gave U-74 the mission of maintaining contact. I can stay on the scene only by using my electric motors at slow speed. Above water I need fuel and would have to retire".
U-556 submerged and did not surface until 1200 on 27th by which time Bismarck ( unknown to her) had been sunk - there would be no German witness to Bismarck's sinking.
The first account of Bismarck's sinking came from a few very lucky survivors picked up by the weather ship Sachsenwald which picked up two men from a raft on 28th May - the men exhausted and all in gave their names as Otto Maus and Walter Lorenzen.
A lasting link to Ireland is the sinking of HMS Mashona by the Luftwaffe - one of her dead crewmembers was cast washed into Clew bay and found there by fisherman , attracted by the gulls which massed around the poor man's body.
They took the poor man ashore and he was buried just outside the small catholic cemetery on Clare Island.
Several years ago I saw his headstone - the standard Commonwealth naval headsone , neglected and overgrown.
A local man who was with me told me of what he had seen that day and regretted that the man was buried outside the graveyard , reflecting that no one knew what religion he was and that today a burial outside the graveyard would not have happened.
(Petty officer Jack Tweed)
Petty Officer Jack Tweed's grave , today it is well cared for by the people of Clare Island, and for that they have my sincere thanks.
I have been told that the graveyard wall has been extended to bring him into the graveyard.
This link beings you to the other men of Mashona buried in Ireland , the coda ( so to speak )of Operation "Rhine Exercise".
http://www.hmsmashona.netfirms.com/graves.htm
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_det ... ty=2701675
In the same cemetery a memorial stone to the 422 RCAF Sunderland which crashed off Clare Island in May 1943 , crew members being buried in Irvinestown Co.Fermanagh.
As he said in a post war interview " I could do absolutely nothing".
Wohlfarth's war diary records his sighting of Force H on the 26th , by which time they had launched their strike against Bismarck and had succeded in crippling her.
He describes sending out a sighting report at 2039 on the 26th and trailing them at top speed until 2200 hrs.
At 0000 hrs on 27th he recorded in his diary - "Wind northwest force 5 , sea way 5, rain squalls , moderate visibility, very dark night. Surfaced. What can I do for Bismarck ? I can see star shells being fired and flashes from Bismarcks guns. It is a terrible feeling to be near and not to be able to do anything. All I can do is to reconnoiter and lead the boats in that have torpedoes. I am keeping contact at the limit of visibility, reporting the position and sending directional signals to call up the other boats"
( It is likely what Wohlfarth saw ( By way of star shells and gunflash) was the night attack by Vian's destroyers).
At 0352. "I am moving around on the eastside to the south, in order to be in the direction of the activity. I soon reach the limit of what i can do in view of my fuel supply. Otherwise I won't get home."
0400 - "The seas are rising ever higher. Bismarck still fighting. report weather for the Bismarck."
At approx. 0630 Wohlfarth sighted Kentrat's U-74 and passed on to him all that he had seen transferring the mission to him.
He added " I have not seen her directly. You assume contact. I have no more fuel." After signaling a greeting Wohlfarth turned away.
His war diary records "Around 0630 gave last contact report , sighted U-74, by visual means gave U-74 the mission of maintaining contact. I can stay on the scene only by using my electric motors at slow speed. Above water I need fuel and would have to retire".
U-556 submerged and did not surface until 1200 on 27th by which time Bismarck ( unknown to her) had been sunk - there would be no German witness to Bismarck's sinking.
The first account of Bismarck's sinking came from a few very lucky survivors picked up by the weather ship Sachsenwald which picked up two men from a raft on 28th May - the men exhausted and all in gave their names as Otto Maus and Walter Lorenzen.
A lasting link to Ireland is the sinking of HMS Mashona by the Luftwaffe - one of her dead crewmembers was cast washed into Clew bay and found there by fisherman , attracted by the gulls which massed around the poor man's body.
They took the poor man ashore and he was buried just outside the small catholic cemetery on Clare Island.
Several years ago I saw his headstone - the standard Commonwealth naval headsone , neglected and overgrown.
A local man who was with me told me of what he had seen that day and regretted that the man was buried outside the graveyard , reflecting that no one knew what religion he was and that today a burial outside the graveyard would not have happened.
(Petty officer Jack Tweed)
Petty Officer Jack Tweed's grave , today it is well cared for by the people of Clare Island, and for that they have my sincere thanks.
I have been told that the graveyard wall has been extended to bring him into the graveyard.
This link beings you to the other men of Mashona buried in Ireland , the coda ( so to speak )of Operation "Rhine Exercise".
http://www.hmsmashona.netfirms.com/graves.htm
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_det ... ty=2701675
In the same cemetery a memorial stone to the 422 RCAF Sunderland which crashed off Clare Island in May 1943 , crew members being buried in Irvinestown Co.Fermanagh.
Last edited by Tychsen on Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 24th May 1941 .
james you are a mind of information , your posts are very interesting and credit to you as they are factual , concise and correct , even the minute details astound me , hope yopu dont mind that i copied your posts on this thread will post on another forum i uncovered .
Re: 24th May 1941 .
Difficult to keep every minute details in your head , a frame work of people , timelines , events and how they interelate is what time and real life allows people to carry.
I know few people who can effortlessly run things off the top of their head to be able to do that you have to be spending a huge amount of time actively reading on a very regular basis -ask any undergraduate.
Human "Googles" don't exist and I would never claim to be one.
Needless to say the exact details as per the content of KTB enteries , the names of the survivors - fine detail like this had to be looked up - even if you know details it is always best to check your own memory out against the written word.
(I recently deleted a post and perhaps caused some offence because of poor memory. )
As a footnote to the survivors picked up and returned to Germany - I have a recollection that the poor guys got "the third degree" as someone with egg on his hat thought that they may have gone over the side before the order was given to do so.
Herbert Manthey, Otto Höntzsch, and Georg Herzog picked up by U-74.
I know few people who can effortlessly run things off the top of their head to be able to do that you have to be spending a huge amount of time actively reading on a very regular basis -ask any undergraduate.
Human "Googles" don't exist and I would never claim to be one.
Needless to say the exact details as per the content of KTB enteries , the names of the survivors - fine detail like this had to be looked up - even if you know details it is always best to check your own memory out against the written word.
(I recently deleted a post and perhaps caused some offence because of poor memory. )
As a footnote to the survivors picked up and returned to Germany - I have a recollection that the poor guys got "the third degree" as someone with egg on his hat thought that they may have gone over the side before the order was given to do so.
Herbert Manthey, Otto Höntzsch, and Georg Herzog picked up by U-74.
Last edited by Tychsen on Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: 24th May 1941 .
nice posts james some nice info and pics there mate
SS KAMPFGRUPPE KNITTEL gustav.knittel@btinternet.com
"never argue with an idiot !!they just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
http://ww2reenactingireland.co.uk/
Re: 24th May 1941 .
your correct james , reference books are always a useful tool to have when posting and give a broader perspective to things .keep up the good work on your posts as they certainly do entertain
Re: 24th May 1941 .
Doing a bit of a "Google" I came on this thread , "Gaynor Williams Bismarck" brought it up.
I bought this print a few days ago "Sighting The Bismarck" by Robert Taylor signed by four of the survivors Hans Heliwig , Josef Statz , Karl-August Schuldt and Johannes Zimmermann all of whom have since passed away.
I was "almost glad" that "The Baron" had not signed it as I have his signature on another Taylor print , but having said that anyone who has seen him give his account of the Bismarck Chase via "Ludo" Kennedy's outstanding documentary for BBC made in the early 1970's cannot fail to have been impressed by the warmth and honesty of the man.
Reflecting back on the card Justin had the presence of mind to ask the gentlemen he met to sign for him , some of these men were probably amongst them and God knows there cannot be many left and every year the brotherhood they belong to becomes smaller.
Attached a logbook copy from one of the crew who found Bismarck and a telegram which came to the two crews.
In the crew list of the 240 Squadron crew Johnson the American is listed as "an observer".
I bought this print a few days ago "Sighting The Bismarck" by Robert Taylor signed by four of the survivors Hans Heliwig , Josef Statz , Karl-August Schuldt and Johannes Zimmermann all of whom have since passed away.
I was "almost glad" that "The Baron" had not signed it as I have his signature on another Taylor print , but having said that anyone who has seen him give his account of the Bismarck Chase via "Ludo" Kennedy's outstanding documentary for BBC made in the early 1970's cannot fail to have been impressed by the warmth and honesty of the man.
Reflecting back on the card Justin had the presence of mind to ask the gentlemen he met to sign for him , some of these men were probably amongst them and God knows there cannot be many left and every year the brotherhood they belong to becomes smaller.
Attached a logbook copy from one of the crew who found Bismarck and a telegram which came to the two crews.
In the crew list of the 240 Squadron crew Johnson the American is listed as "an observer".
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Re: 24th May 1941 .
May slips up on us again........on this night Lancelot Holland was en route to intercept Bismarck in Denmark Strait, one wonders what would have been the outcome had Lindermann had been allowed to continue to fire on prince of Wales.