stg44 used in Normandy?

[Schuller]

This is getting really interesting, many thanks for the info

Another issue, would all the eight members of a Gruppe receive Stg's for assault roles? or just one (that goes to the leader?) was considered enough for support?
The Gruppe I'm talking about would belong to one of the Zugs in a Kompanie where Stg's are being issued

For example:
A kompanie has 3 Zuggen (normally)
Each Zug has 3 Gruppen (normally)
2 of the Gruppen would have all their members equiped with Stg's (eight members per Gruppe)
The third Gruppe has Mg42 and Kar98's

I think this "structure" for a Kompanie was never applied to the field (I guess this regulation did not make it out of the paper)
We usually see a mixture of weapons in photos

[rednas]

This is getting really interesting, many thanks for the info

Another issue, would all the eight members of a Gruppe receive Stg's for assault roles? or just one (that goes to the leader?) was considered enough for support?
The Gruppe I'm talking about would belong to one of the Zugs in a Kompanie where Stg's are being issued

For example:
A kompanie has 3 Zuggen (normally)
Each Zug has 3 Gruppen (normally)
2 of the Gruppen would have all their members equiped with Stg's (eight members per Gruppe)
The third Gruppe has Mg42 and Kar98's

I think this "structure" for a Kompanie was never applied to the field (I guess this regulation did not make it out of the paper)
We usually see a mixture of weapons in photos

This is about the Sturmzug. A very interesting read about that can be found here: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84874

I've seen photos and video of this, where you see squads full with Stg's but mostly this was bering made in the end of '44. Next to that you would also see individual Stg's in use instead of the Mp40. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODKDTCITtg This video about the Skijäger brigade (later division) in the winter of '43/'44 shows both. Around 1.22 a gruppe with only the gruppenfuhrer with a Stg, in the later scene most are armed with Stg's. There are also many well known photos around this action which shows many Stg's in use.

[G43]

MP44 in Normandy-Definately

But would be 43/44 dated MP43s and MP43/1s

Dug up Kurz rounds at Barquette lock from FJR6 and an MP43 mag at Fonteney Le Pesnel from HJ
so 100% used in Normandy and various books/photos/veterans prove it

My Deact MP43 is Oct 43 production and very worn down on the right hand side wooden hand grip,(seen lots of use?)

Unit in posted pics is 84th Infantry division in Normandy,im sure its an MP43/1

Cheers

Ian

[Franz repper]

Ian thanks for that info you live and learn as they say

[Max]

Here is Roughly the data from an article in Spanish language extracted from A.C.C.U.H. here is the link just in case some of you can read it in Spanish.

http://www.accuh.com/modules/smartsecti ... ?itemid=57


-First 1500 MKb42(H) sent late April 1943 for testing in six divisions from (HGr. Nord):

1. Inf.Div.
11. Inf.Div.
21.Inf.Div.
93.Inf.Div.
212 Inf.Div.
18 Inf.Div.(mot)

-In October 1943 Firsts MP43 are sent for testing:

HGr Mitte:
31.Inf.Div,
268 Inf.Div
KavRgt Mitte,

HGr Süd:
15. Inf.Div.,
46. Inf.Div.
2.SS PzGr Div “Das Reich”,
PzGrDiv Grossdeutschland
16.PzDiv.

HGr B (deployed in Italy):
71.Inf.Div.,
GrenDiv “Hoch u. Deutschmeister”
LSSAH

-January 1944 two divisions were chosen to reequip completely with MP 43, the 1.InfDiv and 28.Jäger-Div (New Kstn).

-February 1944 the OstHeer was equipped with about 10.000 MP43 and MKb42(H) as follows:

HGr Mitte:
HGr - 718

2.Armee:
SkiJägBrig 1 - 1480
KAbt E - 147

4. Armee:
31. InfDiv - 133
78 SturmDiv - 115
95. InfDiv - 35
267. InfDiv - 35
337. InfDiv - 114
25. PzGrDiv - 115

9. Armee
9.Armee Units- 260
6.InfDiv - 20
36. InfDiv - 88
45.InfDiv - 20
296. InfDiv - 60

3. PzArmee
3.PzArmee Units - 2
12. InfDiv - 20
14. InfDiv - 50
197. InfDiv - 10
211. InfDiv - 35
299. InfDiv - 49
5. JägDiv - 153
4. LwFeldDiv - 39
6. LwFeldDiv - 24

HGr Nord:
16. Armee:
16.Armee Units- 864
28. JägDiv - 380
32.InfDiv - 778
93. InfDiv - 155
122. InfDiv. - 864

18.Armee:
18.Armee Units- 293
11. InfDiv - 1070
LettSSBgde - 10
SS-Polizei Div - 3
338 FeldErsatzDiv - 20

HGrD:
PzGruppe West:2.SS PzGrDiv - 41
HGr A:15.Inf.Div.D - 119
16. PzGrDiv - 120
23.PzDiv - 119

HGr Süd:
1.Inf.Div. - 612
LSSAH - 108
2.SS PzGrDiv – 29

-In July 1944, 570 MP 44 sent to each one of the following Divisions:

HGr Nord-Ukranie:
101. JägDiv
26. InfDiv
68. InfDiv
75. InfDiv
371. InfDiv

HGr Nord:
11. InfDiv
30. InfDiv
32. InfDiv

-September 1944, 600 MP44 were sent to each one of the following Divisions:

HGr A:
342. InfDiv

HGr. Mitte:
14. InfDiv

October 1944 the first two divisions from the West front to be fully reequipped with MP44 are the 269. Inf Div (HGr D) and 305. InfDiv.
From that point onwards the various Hgr. decided the MP44 distribution between his units.
In September 1944 the decision is taken for the Volksgrenadier divisions to be equipped with the MP44.

Source - Sturmgewehr! From Firepower to Striking Power, Hans Dietrich Handrich, Collector Grade Publicatio.

Cheers!!

Max.

[Franz repper]

Thanks Max great info

[Max]

Thanks Franz.

Looking at the numbers it seems there were no preferences for the WSS units in the distribution of the weapon as it is commonly believed.

Cheers!

Max.

[Jaws]

Here is Roughly the data from an article in Spanish language extracted from A.C.C.U.H. here is the link just in case some of you can read it in Spanish.

http://www.accuh.com/modules/smartsecti ... ?itemid=57


-First 1500 MKb42(H) sent late April 1943 for testing in six divisions from (HGr. Nord):

1. Inf.Div.
11. Inf.Div.
21.Inf.Div.
93.Inf.Div.
212 Inf.Div.
18 Inf.Div.(mot)

-In October 1943 Firsts MP43 are sent for testing:

HGr Mitte:
31.Inf.Div,
268 Inf.Div
KavRgt Mitte,

HGr Süd:
15. Inf.Div.,
46. Inf.Div.
2.SS PzGr Div “Das Reich”,
PzGrDiv Grossdeutschland
16.PzDiv.

HGr B (deployed in Italy):
71.Inf.Div.,
GrenDiv “Hoch u. Deutschmeister”
LSSAH

-January 1944 two divisions were chosen to reequip completely with MP 43, the 1.InfDiv and 28.Jäger-Div (New Kstn).

-February 1944 the OstHeer was equipped with about 10.000 MP43 and MKb42(H) as follows:

HGr Mitte:
HGr - 718

2.Armee:
SkiJägBrig 1 - 1480
KAbt E - 147

4. Armee:
31. InfDiv - 133
78 SturmDiv - 115
95. InfDiv - 35
267. InfDiv - 35
337. InfDiv - 114
25. PzGrDiv - 115

9. Armee
9.Armee Units- 260
6.InfDiv - 20
36. InfDiv - 88
45.InfDiv - 20
296. InfDiv - 60

3. PzArmee
3.PzArmee Units - 2
12. InfDiv - 20
14. InfDiv - 50
197. InfDiv - 10
211. InfDiv - 35
299. InfDiv - 49
5. JägDiv - 153
4. LwFeldDiv - 39
6. LwFeldDiv - 24

HGr Nord:
16. Armee:
16.Armee Units- 864
28. JägDiv - 380
32.InfDiv - 778
93. InfDiv - 155
122. InfDiv. - 864

18.Armee:
18.Armee Units- 293
11. InfDiv - 1070
LettSSBgde - 10
SS-Polizei Div - 3
338 FeldErsatzDiv - 20

HGrD:
PzGruppe West:2.SS PzGrDiv - 41
HGr A:15.Inf.Div.D - 119
16. PzGrDiv - 120
23.PzDiv - 119

HGr Süd:
1.Inf.Div. - 612
LSSAH - 108
2.SS PzGrDiv – 29

-In July 1944, 570 MP 44 sent to each one of the following Divisions:

HGr Nord-Ukranie:
101. JägDiv
26. InfDiv
68. InfDiv
75. InfDiv
371. InfDiv

HGr Nord:
11. InfDiv
30. InfDiv
32. InfDiv

-September 1944, 600 MP44 were sent to each one of the following Divisions:

HGr A:
342. InfDiv

HGr. Mitte:
14. InfDiv

October 1944 the first two divisions from the West front to be fully reequipped with MP44 are the 269. Inf Div (HGr D) and 305. InfDiv.
From that point onwards the various Hgr. decided the MP44 distribution between his units.
In September 1944 the decision is taken for the Volksgrenadier divisions to be equipped with the MP44.

Source - Sturmgewehr! From Firepower to Striking Power, Hans Dietrich Handrich, Collector Grade Publicatio.

Cheers!!

Max.

No mention of Fallschirm units given this weapon? Am I reading the info listed wrong?

Regards,

Gary.

[Franz repper]

No but at least it backs up the info I got from the veteran

[wolfsangel]

A friend of mine told me some years ago about discovering MP44 rounds whilst not breaking the law and metal detecting in normandy

[Stigroadie]

There is a veteran account somewhere on the web in which he relates that they had the new weapon when they moved into Normandy.
Can I find the blessed thing now I need it though? Of course not.

[dog green 1]

I'm sure one of the FJ groups posted details about a veteran at Beltring one year recalling how they were testing the weapon just before the Normandy landings.

[berlin1945]

I'm sure one of the FJ groups posted details about a veteran at Beltring one year recalling how they were testing the weapon just before the Normandy landings.

The Kurtz round had a tendency to glue up the gun after prolonged firing as the varnish around the shell casing softened, the Kurtz rounds were also used in other German weapons and not specific to the stg family of weapons.

[SPW]

What other German weapons used the 7.9mm Kurtz rounds?? I thought such ammo was specifically designed for the assault rifles?

[Stigroadie]

Not the only the kurtz rounds had that style of lacquered steel casing. They were very common in 7.92 x 57.
Not sure what else used the Kurtz if anything at all.