German shovel?

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peiper1944
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Location: Shropshire UK (The heart of England)

Re: German shovel?

Post by peiper1944 »

Yes mate but sometime there are little features that stand out which make the item recognisable
from similar items such as rivets or shape of the handle.
Ive added some pics to help identify, as you can see the Pre-War 1934 German type appears the same
as the Swiss type and British type due to rivets on the spade head itself, the noticeable difference on the
British rigid 1939 version is the folding metal flanges on either side of the handle where the metal has been
pressed down on a machine, also the British type seems flatter with less of a curvature to the spade head itself
apart from that the Swiss and early German types look the same from a distance, thats what i meant about noticing
certain identifying features
orig_german_etools.jpg
orig_german_etools.jpg (114.31 KiB) Viewed 4592 times
German rigid E-Tools
Swiss e tool dated 1937.jpg
Swiss e tool dated 1937.jpg (11.05 KiB) Viewed 4591 times
Swiss rigid E-Tool
British 1939 etool.jpg
British 1939 etool.jpg (13.09 KiB) Viewed 4590 times
British 1939 pat rigid E-Tool

Cheers Pipes
Staff-Sgt, British Airborne Pathfinders Unit (Ex SBG)

ww2airbornegroup.webs.com
Konzert-Meister

Re: German shovel?

Post by Konzert-Meister »

Yes there is a background to the buying of the spade. The issue here is the spade itself and not the circumstances it was bought. The spade was NOT produced in Germany in 1940 as the seller (my friend) claimed and at the point of the post still insisted it was.

Personal issues aside, the spade was not produced in Germany in 1940.
Konzert-Meister

Re: German shovel?

Post by Konzert-Meister »

Note how the Reichsheer one has the 'rivet' through the folded 'ears'. British ones vary too, some have this and some don't.
Also the half finish on the flat of the spade is present on some and not others.

German spades are identified by a maker stamp on the flat of the spade, never on the handle.

Also note the variation on the ball of the handle, some are egg shaped and some round.

Linneman patent spades not produced by Germany are more often maker stamped on the metal part of the shaft. As in the links. You can clearly see a maker mark was removed from my spade.

Note the swiss handles are usually 6? sided and have a brass? pin near the head. The much studied 'band' around the metal shaft only goes right the way around on the Swiss ones and possibly other countries Linneman pattern spades. The Reichsheer and 39 Pattern spades do not have this band going right around.
If the spade is worn pointing out from the leg this part of the spade isn't visible on the ones that appear like the Reichsheer and Pattern 39.
There are original pictures of German soldiers wearing a type of spade with the band that wraps right around. From memory these spades are in early war pictures and are likely old/captured stock of a non German produced Linneman pattern spade.
Halle
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Re: German shovel?

Post by Halle »

Great thread , thanks guys , my knowledge of German/European entrenching tools has certainly increased ! :D

Now I've got to find an earlier pattern for my pre war impression .... :roll: :lol:
Jäger Stefan Halle 3./I./Geb.Jag.Reg.100
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peiper1944
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Re: German shovel?

Post by peiper1944 »

Halle wrote:Great thread , thanks guys , my knowledge of German/European entrenching tools has certainly increased ! :D
Now I've got to find an earlier pattern for my pre war impression .... :roll: :lol:
As you can see from the pics Halle, the Swiss type and the 1939 British type resemble the
early German version (due to the riveted heads), it is the later War unriveted type which is
rarer to find imho as there is not another foreign type that is similar
Staff-Sgt, British Airborne Pathfinders Unit (Ex SBG)

ww2airbornegroup.webs.com
Halle
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:57 pm
Location: Sud west

Re: German shovel?

Post by Halle »

They do Pipes , but they're not " the real thing " ..... :wink:
Jäger Stefan Halle 3./I./Geb.Jag.Reg.100
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LHistorian
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Re: German shovel?

Post by LHistorian »

Well thanks chaps for all the help, For sure helped my knowledge as well on the subject of entrenching tools! :D

I'll see about posting some pics of it should I get it (probably soon)
die Wille Gottes wird nie nehmen Sie, wo die Gnade Gottes wird Sie nicht schützen.
~~~~~~
Put a German soldier into a box. Close it as tight as you can.

Write on it´s top the warning: " DO NOT OPEN! ONLY IN CASE OF WAR!"
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Crazy Feldgendarme
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Re: German shovel?

Post by Crazy Feldgendarme »

Ok I have cleaned this up folks, we don't need personal issues on the open forum, either keep it to PM / E-mail or square up at an event. Your choice cos if it happens again we will say goodbye
May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch.

GeFoPo
mauser98
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Re: German shovel?

Post by mauser98 »

The bent over ears on the reverse side are riveted on German WW1 shovels. The British '37 ones appear to not be riveted. WW2 made German shovels do not appear to have "ears".
The German utilized many shovels for all conquered armies, so we need to examine all photos carefully. Many reenactors use the Swiss pattern which had a band around the the shank of the part that the wooden handle was attached. They also had a brass pin in the side of the ball of the handle to prevent splitting.

Jim
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