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 Post subject: Re: German shovel?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 537
Location: Shropshire UK (The heart of England)
Yes mate but sometime there are little features that stand out which make the item recognisable
from similar items such as rivets or shape of the handle.
Ive added some pics to help identify, as you can see the Pre-War 1934 German type appears the same
as the Swiss type and British type due to rivets on the spade head itself, the noticeable difference on the
British rigid 1939 version is the folding metal flanges on either side of the handle where the metal has been
pressed down on a machine, also the British type seems flatter with less of a curvature to the spade head itself
apart from that the Swiss and early German types look the same from a distance, thats what i meant about noticing
certain identifying features

Attachment:
orig_german_etools.jpg
orig_german_etools.jpg [ 114.31 KiB | Viewed 2956 times ]

German rigid E-Tools

Attachment:
Swiss e tool dated 1937.jpg
Swiss e tool dated 1937.jpg [ 11.05 KiB | Viewed 2955 times ]

Swiss rigid E-Tool

Attachment:
British 1939 etool.jpg
British 1939 etool.jpg [ 13.09 KiB | Viewed 2954 times ]

British 1939 pat rigid E-Tool

Cheers Pipes

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 Post subject: Re: German shovel?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 8:43 am
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Yes there is a background to the buying of the spade. The issue here is the spade itself and not the circumstances it was bought. The spade was NOT produced in Germany in 1940 as the seller (my friend) claimed and at the point of the post still insisted it was.

Personal issues aside, the spade was not produced in Germany in 1940.

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 Post subject: Re: German shovel?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Note how the Reichsheer one has the 'rivet' through the folded 'ears'. British ones vary too, some have this and some don't.
Also the half finish on the flat of the spade is present on some and not others.

German spades are identified by a maker stamp on the flat of the spade, never on the handle.

Also note the variation on the ball of the handle, some are egg shaped and some round.

Linneman patent spades not produced by Germany are more often maker stamped on the metal part of the shaft. As in the links. You can clearly see a maker mark was removed from my spade.

Note the swiss handles are usually 6? sided and have a brass? pin near the head. The much studied 'band' around the metal shaft only goes right the way around on the Swiss ones and possibly other countries Linneman pattern spades. The Reichsheer and 39 Pattern spades do not have this band going right around.
If the spade is worn pointing out from the leg this part of the spade isn't visible on the ones that appear like the Reichsheer and Pattern 39.
There are original pictures of German soldiers wearing a type of spade with the band that wraps right around. From memory these spades are in early war pictures and are likely old/captured stock of a non German produced Linneman pattern spade.

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 Post subject: Re: German shovel?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:57 pm
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Location: Sud west
Great thread , thanks guys , my knowledge of German/European entrenching tools has certainly increased ! :D

Now I've got to find an earlier pattern for my pre war impression .... :roll: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: German shovel?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:50 pm
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Location: Shropshire UK (The heart of England)
Halle wrote:
Great thread , thanks guys , my knowledge of German/European entrenching tools has certainly increased ! :D
Now I've got to find an earlier pattern for my pre war impression .... :roll: :lol:


As you can see from the pics Halle, the Swiss type and the 1939 British type resemble the
early German version (due to the riveted heads), it is the later War unriveted type which is
rarer to find imho as there is not another foreign type that is similar

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 Post subject: Re: German shovel?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:57 pm
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Location: Sud west
They do Pipes , but they're not " the real thing " ..... :wink:

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Jäger Stefan Halle 3./I./Geb.Jag.Reg.100


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 Post subject: Re: German shovel?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:49 am
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Location: US of A
Well thanks chaps for all the help, For sure helped my knowledge as well on the subject of entrenching tools! :D

I'll see about posting some pics of it should I get it (probably soon)

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Put a German soldier into a box. Close it as tight as you can.

Write on it´s top the warning: " DO NOT OPEN! ONLY IN CASE OF WAR!"


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 Post subject: Re: German shovel?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:18 am 
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Location: Telford
Ok I have cleaned this up folks, we don't need personal issues on the open forum, either keep it to PM / E-mail or square up at an event. Your choice cos if it happens again we will say goodbye

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 Post subject: Re: German shovel?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:00 am
Posts: 262
Location: Long Island, New York
The bent over ears on the reverse side are riveted on German WW1 shovels. The British '37 ones appear to not be riveted. WW2 made German shovels do not appear to have "ears".
The German utilized many shovels for all conquered armies, so we need to examine all photos carefully. Many reenactors use the Swiss pattern which had a band around the the shank of the part that the wooden handle was attached. They also had a brass pin in the side of the ball of the handle to prevent splitting.

Jim


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