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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Location: Grossbritannien
Franz repper wrote:
Jugend Repper wrote:
Peiper wrote:

Peiper they are worn on the left lower pocket , on of Andy's 85s unit does Handschar


Thanks Jugend :D
I was refferring to the SS Runic badge not the "bandit" badge (Anti Partisan badge)
which is worn on the left pocket as is the normal case for awards, the Runic badge
was worn on the right pocket due to there not being normally enough room on the right.

Cheers Pipes

Pipes sorry to say the ss runes do go on the left.
And there are other photos out there , I think that there is a Photo with SS-
Obergruppenführer Artur Phleps with them on the right but in that photo he has
a shit load of bling on :shock:[/quote]

Cheers Franz :wink:
I knew i'd seen a pic somewhere lol, although ive seen a couple of others the same??,
i missed this post earlier, hence my late response.

Cheers, Pipes.

_________________
"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:12 pm 
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Regarding the Chessboard shield...your impression would still be accurate even if you took it off entirely.
Alot of Bosnian members of the Division took it off (the Imams, once they crossed the River Sava) Due to their autonomistic and nationalistist ideals they didnt want to wear the badge of Croatia as they fought for the autonomy of their own country (there were also cases of Croatian persecution on the Bosnians but I wont go into that)

Also, by April of 1944, only 300 Croats remained in the division, and some sources say the (Croatian enlisted men and NCOs) were reorganized into the Felgendarmerie Trupp 13.
The German NCOs and officers often preffered the fez (+various other camo. caps) and kept their Croatian Chessboards on (regulation)
The remaining Bosnians, which after April 1944, made up 95% of the enlisted men, wore the fez. I havent seen many, if one, pictures where Bosnians are wearing anything but the fez (in 1944)

thats all
my 2 cents

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:37 pm 
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I had heard that too, although the version i read was that the chessboard shield had
been removed after the staged coup/mutiny at Villefranche in 43, once the Regiment
was sent back to combat the patch was taken off, although i agree that being captured
by the Serbs wearing this insignia wouldn't go down too well with the local populace lol

Pipes

_________________
"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
Image
SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


Last edited by Peiper on Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:45 pm 
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Location: Grossbritannien
My re-constucted fez and related insignia

Attachment:
Handschar red fez..jpg
Handschar red fez..jpg [ 18.47 KiB | Viewed 6661 times ]


Attachment:
Handschar anti partisan badge.jpg
Handschar anti partisan badge.jpg [ 30.33 KiB | Viewed 6661 times ]


Attachment:
Handschar collar insignia..jpg
Handschar collar insignia..jpg [ 25.44 KiB | Viewed 6661 times ]


Pipes

_________________
"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
Image
SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:49 pm 
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Location: Grossbritannien
Arm insignia

Attachment:
Handschar sleeve insignia.jpg
Handschar sleeve insignia.jpg [ 24.38 KiB | Viewed 6661 times ]


Attachment:
ssedeil.jpg
ssedeil.jpg [ 10.16 KiB | Viewed 6661 times ]


Pipes

_________________
"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
Image
SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Peiper wrote:
I had heard that too, although the version i read was that the chessboard shield had
been removed after the staged coup/mutiny at Villefranche in 43, once the Regiment
was sent back to combat the patch was taken off, although i agree that being captured
by the Serbs wearing this insignia wouldn't go down too well with the local populace lol

Pipes


I havent heard of any cases of Handschar members getting captured by the partisans (or yet prisoners being taken :shock: ). Maybe missing in action. Such opportunities were used to desert if anything.
By the way, the Chessboard patch and the fez were issued sometime towards the end of training at Neuhammer (end of 1943, early 1944). While in the training enviroment all the men were required to wear them by regulations (and as we know with all SS units, uniform discipline and uniformity wasnt always a priority in the field) They would also cut off all the pouches off of the tunic sometimes.


Have you had any luck trying to buy Seb's fez? (he's a Polish guy from the 39-45 forum that makes them) Im still trying to contact him....they seem pretty good to me.

Do you guys have a website or gallery of your pictures. Id love to see color reenactments of someone wearing a realistic fez.

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http://s321.photobucket.com/albums/nn377/Sturmmann13SS/
Handzaru Udaraj!


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:58 pm 
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Location: Grossbritannien
Here's some pics of original fez's somewere on sale some time back but were expensive
(£1000-£2000 :o ), but the grey ones appear to be unstiffened/soft ???
My fez was purchased from Turkey (Bodrum) for 10 Euro and i just stuck on some Bevo
insignia lol :D

Attachment:
Handschar grey fez.jpg
Handschar grey fez.jpg [ 30.61 KiB | Viewed 6648 times ]


Attachment:
Handschar grey fez, pic3.jpg
Handschar grey fez, pic3.jpg [ 41.76 KiB | Viewed 6648 times ]


Cheers Pipes :wink:

_________________
"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:47 am 
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jeez, if only I couldve told my grandfather to keep some of that stuff.
Im still trying to find his Soldbuch.

Alot of documents and uniforms were thrown away or into the Sava river as the men were coming home. Following the war, the communists were still hunting down the volunteers. My grandpa never talked about the war but someone still ratted him out. He got two years in a communist prison and had to do a year in the Yugoslavian Army.

So you cant expect to see original stuff being sold from Bosnia

Your last pic is really an interesting one, it appeared in a Bosnian newspaper after the war in the 90s. It's amazing that someone actually kept that stuff. You can also notice the autumn M42 type II smock.

If I cant contact Seb, I'll have to dye this fez feldgrau, and buy a new tassel
Image

The fez with the Totenkopf is still one handsome piece of headgear....handsdown :D

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Handzaru Udaraj!


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:33 am 
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Its intresting that nobody had kept any of this gear :?:

Out of intrest the pic of my Anti Partisan badge is genuine, it was purchased along with
a rusty SS buckle and an Eastern Volunteers medal which were all genuine many years ago
from an auction by my Dad, sad to say the buckle and medal are now gone but still have the
bandit badge.

We were chatting to the sellar of these items after the auction who apparantly did house
clearances and these few items had apparantly been cleared from a Polish guys house who
had passed away, looking back he was more likely to have been a Croat or Bosnian but had
probably had kept his identity secret ????

Pipes :D

_________________
"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
Image
SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:42 am 
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I cant understand why none of these men are getting their books published, there were some manuscripts. They deserve all the credit and honor. The more I research this subject I realize the sizes of their battles and struggles. Time and time again, lone battalions and regiments of SS men came up against entire partisan divisions and came out on top.

It's just that (as you may know) after 50 years of communist propaganda, everyone today believes that all Yugoslavs were in the partisans. When in reality most of them were our previous enemies, the Serbs, who just wanted a country where they would have the upperhand again.
So they dont want to be seen as traitors.
I dont think there's a single well known 1st hand account on this subject.

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Handzaru Udaraj!


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:57 pm 
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42gunner wrote:

Do you guys have a website or gallery of your pictures. Id love to see color reenactments of someone wearing a realistic fez.


Hi Gunner :)
Here's some Handschar pics ive knocked up for you lol

Attachment:
SS Handschar reenact pic5.jpg
SS Handschar reenact pic5.jpg [ 17.03 KiB | Viewed 6594 times ]


Attachment:
SS Handschar reenact pic4.jpg
SS Handschar reenact pic4.jpg [ 35.54 KiB | Viewed 6594 times ]


Attachment:
SS Handschar reenact pic3.jpg
SS Handschar reenact pic3.jpg [ 18.31 KiB | Viewed 6612 times ]


Regards Peiper :wink:

_________________
"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
Image
SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


Last edited by Peiper on Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:43 pm 
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:D those are nice pics

If I may suggest something...
to your group

for field re-enactments, camo smocks should be used.
Image
M42 type II blurred edge smocks are OK, and even type II oakleaf smocks are good.
Image
Older SS members brought their own smocks such as the plane tree ones.
The only thing wrong with this picture above are his suspenders. Most of the men used the breadbag strap to hold up the pouches.


Image
I like these anoraks and Id like to find one like this someday
till then the smock will do.



*Bosnian members of the division didn't wear the Iron Cross, just the ribbon.
Croats and Germans yes.

Awesome impression tough.

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Handzaru Udaraj!


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:10 pm 
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Location: TAMPERE FINLAND
42gunner wrote:
:
Image
I like these anoraks and Id like to find one like this someday
till then the smock will do.

Gunner this smock was never made its at best a field made item

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:52 am 
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Something told me that wasnt a widely used item

this seems to be the same one
Image

He also seems to have a M1931 pack made from Zeltbahn material.
DML does some laughable things just to keep pumping out new stuff with each figure. Further justifying the spending of $30-40 for 1 figure.
Their most inaccurate figure IMO, was Hasan Malnar. An almost Arab looking headsculpt, Italian camo uniform and an Gew 33/40 (I highly doubt the southern SS-Gebirgs got a significant number if any of Gew 33/40s, thats the myth Dragon itself started)
Their choice of names is also funny sometimes.


Must be a well known field item, there are alot of publications of it.
Image

If I cant find this particular anorak, I'll stick with SS smocks. Single color anoraks are too much of a Wehrmacht thing for me.

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Handzaru Udaraj!


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:47 am 
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Spearhead on ebay do the camo anorak but as Franz said they were never issued, either field-
made versions or at best the Unit tailor had knocked a few out for Officers made from SS-Zelt
material, as for my impression i have got smocks but left them off to show the insignia.
(see below)

Attachment:
Handschar pic 9 (Combat equipment).jpg
Handschar pic 9 (Combat equipment).jpg [ 35.7 KiB | Viewed 6597 times ]


Regards Peiper :wink:

_________________
"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
Image
SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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