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 Post subject: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:00 pm
Posts: 113
Location: UK
Looking at getting a softshell P38 holster

Are pebbled ones correct?

Any pics of usage?

Cheers

Ian


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:22 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Edinburgh area
I have an original wartime dated, pebbled leather soft-shell P38 holster.

Why would pebbled leather types not be corrrect?
Wartime shortages lead to all sorts of cheaper hides being utilised.
Lots of pics of them in use in the reference books I use...


I'd offer mine, except I took it apart to make patterns from, and have not yet re-assembled it.
Plus, I got it from a friend who has since sadly died...so will not part with it.

If you want a museum quality repro., made to original spec. using best grade hide & correctly stamped with P38 markings and other codes then drop me a PM (though I will have to see if I still have some pebbled hide if you decide to go with pebbled hide)


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 8:43 am
Posts: 231
Genuinely interested in cheaper leather used in production of equipment. How is pebbled leather and different hides cheaper in the processes from cow to frontline.

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Uffz. Pankler - Landser an der Ostfront living history project, UK.


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:22 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Edinburgh area
Tangent #2...first boots, now holsters!

Cheaper less attractive hides have had a long role in leather production. Not only in wartime.

Ok.
Cow A: eats the grass/hay, has a nice life for a few years in a well maintained pasture. then once at a certain weight/farmer gets his sons phone bill, Cow A gets a one way trip to the burger processing plant & the hide makes nice leather.
Cow B: eats the grass/hay, never had the vet around for vaccination so gets blowfly. The pasture looks like a V1 impact zone, so Cow B has more barbed wire scratches than he can scratch on a week of Sundays. Cow B also gets to see the inside of the burger plant...just the once.

IF the 2 cows above are of equal weight & age then their skins will be of very similar grade and thickness, etc.
When tanned they'll be ALMOST the same BUT the surface of Cow Bs hide will have scars from wire scratches and healed blowfly holes. Though not as attractive there's nothing wrong with the hide, its just marked. It's also worth £€£€£ & if not used will be a substantial loss of possible revenue.

SO

How to solve the problem?
Change the hide surface to one that will make the damage marks vanish.
In the UK its done with huge mangle type rollers that have wire in them to give a wavy pattern = bag hide...seen on Gladstone bags/doctors bags/GPO tool bags, etc.
In Europe they also fix the damage, but with big patterned embossing plates = pebbled leather hide. Still had most of the strength of the better hide, but not as pretty...so sells at a lower price.
Pebble pattern embossing can also be a way to compress glue cheaper hides together without this being obvious to the end user.

Ok. That's standard practice in tanneries. In peacetime.
The wartime factor....
Meat in more demand due to rationing, so the cows get killed at a younger age = not as old = so thinner skinned = poorer weaker leather hides.
Leather in more demand, plus also harder to source in normal peacetime grades.

The factories have to then use far from ideal hides for some jobs, use poorer parts of the hide, make joins in smaller hides to obtain pieces of the required size, etc.
At the end of the war the Germans had to use Presthof ? leather ...cardboard/synthetic junk...but ok for jobs with no load bearing requirement...

So, not really used for cost reason in some cases, but out of necessity.

Hope this explains some of the background history to a couple of leather types. Apologies for typos, as had to do this on my phone!!


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:00 pm
Posts: 113
Location: UK
Im afraid Dear Sir Im not actually interested in your input or interested in dealing with you in any way

Many a person on the other forum have the same view!!


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 338
Location: NZ
G43 wrote:
Looking at getting a softshell P38 holster

Are pebbled ones correct?

Any pics of usage?

Cheers

Ian


I have never seen a pebbled one, and i have seen a lot of them. Not saying that its wrong, but maybe only say 25% were made pebbled when times had gotten really tough. Given the widespread usage of smooth holsters, perhaps its worth continuing to use them. The closed cover type are better to keep your mobile in ...........


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:57 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Sud west
Saddler , thank you for taking the time to explain the leather making process , MOST of us , I'm sure , appreciate it ..... :wink:

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Jäger Stefan Halle 3./I./Geb.Jag.Reg.100


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 419
Location: Auchterarder, Schottland
http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/v ... 22&t=70141

G43's post may look harsh but it is seemingly justified. I appreciate his insight into leatherwork, but it doesnt take away from his 'patchy' past of non delivering of goods, etc.....

Not trying to be an arsehole, just stating facts. Ive heard great things about his leatherwork on various forums, but one should exercise caution until he turns his reputation around.

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erikbozwo2 wrote:
Pyotr, please don't take any advice from peiper.


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:35 pm
Posts: 243
Location: UK
Knowing some of those who gave lost out to him on the other forum I would not even think about sending this saddler chap samples or money.
He has a long way to go to restore any good reputation he may have had.
On your own head be it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 528
Location: Shropshire UK (The heart of England)
SplinterA wrote:
Knowing some of those who gave lost out to him on the other forum I would not even think about sending this saddler chap samples or money.
He has a long way to go to restore any good reputation he may have had.
On your own head be it.


Sorry to "hijack" the thread but the easiest
way for this gentleman to restore his reputation
is to refund everybody's money, maybe a thread
on the off topic section listing everybody who
is wanting a refund, personally I know what it is
like to have ones reputation besmirched even
though I never owed anyone anything or did
anything to anyone but unfortunately the re-
enactment scene is a small world and people are
told things by "hearsay" which ruins peoples characture
and i would do what I could to restore my good name
Peiper

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"After 12yrs in reenacting and im still around, my portrayals speaks for themselves" ;-)

Staff-Sgt, British Airborne Pathfinders Unit
ww2airbornegroup.webs.com


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:22 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Edinburgh area
peiper1944 wrote:
SplinterA wrote:
Knowing some of those who gave lost out to him on the other forum I would not even think about sending this saddler chap samples or money.
He has a long way to go to restore any good reputation he may have had.
On your own head be it.


Sorry to "hijack" the thread but the easiest
way for this gentleman to restore his reputation
is to refund everybody's money, maybe a thread
on the off topic section listing everybody who
is wanting a refund, personally I know what it is
like to have ones reputation besmirched even
though I never owed anyone anything or did
anything to anyone but unfortunately the re-
enactment scene is a small world and people are
told things by "hearsay" which ruins peoples characture
and i would do what I could to restore my good name
Peiper


Cheers Peiper

I've added a line or two in the thread about books that I'd posted in earlier...three plus hours of typing!
Saves my fingers from the needles of doom, though I was supposed to be putting the final touches to a scope case, so the distractions I mention in the other thread have reared their ugly head again.

What it is to be popular!

Groucho Marx said it best, the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about - though I don't think he'd apply the rule if he was treat the way some folk see as normal.
Keyboard commando's in some cases. Nice blokes in others.

Wonder if any of what I posted about sinks in??

Appreciate your input. Good to see positive suggestions instead of back stabbing.


Cheers for now,

Saddler


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 419
Location: Auchterarder, Schottland
Atleast youre still here and trying. My post wasnt intended as a stab in the back, but to explain some of the hostility shown by others.

If you can turn your reputation around then kudos to you. I for one being localish, would have no issue dealing face to face, cash for goods there and then. As someone thst dabbles in leatherwork as a hobby, making the odd belt and bits and bobs, I understand the skills and level of workmanship thst goes into good leatherwork.

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erikbozwo2 wrote:
Pyotr, please don't take any advice from peiper.


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:22 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Edinburgh area
GraemeMac wrote:
Atleast youre still here and trying. My post wasnt intended as a stab in the back, but to explain some of the hostility shown by others.

If you can turn your reputation around then kudos to you. I for one being localish, would have no issue dealing face to face, cash for goods there and then. As someone thst dabbles in leatherwork as a hobby, making the odd belt and bits and bobs, I understand the skills and level of workmanship thst goes into good leatherwork.


No issues at all with any of your posts on here...again, I've never met you, nor most of the others that have decided to speak up; yet even without first hand knowledge the majority seem quick to condemn without all the facts...hence my longer reply in the New Book thread.

The person most out of pocket from my transactions with folk on the other forum is myself. Seems I'm a great "mate" if certain folk need kit but they soom crawl back under their rock when I'm not flavour of the month & one of their inner clique says I looked at them in a funny way...

99% of my orders are without any drama...and I sell a lot of scabbards, scope caps, rifle slings, cheekrests, belts, bolt holsters, etc. to "normal" customers who are 100% satisfied.

I even still do work for a a couple of chaps on the other forum. They've never raised the topic of the thread there, they're totally happy with my repair jobs AND the time I take to do the work.
Aside from Castlelaw range I also see folk at Bisley when I take a stall there. Again, zero problems...same for the reenactors from there that still come to visit me at home, again without any dramas or noses out of joint.

Wonder how certain folk would take a thread about how they've behaved in the past?
Knowing people for 20+ years you get to see some of their tricks: ALL my items are sold as what they are, reproduction...yet when other people choose to, THEY can have items made, age them and using their "reputation" sell the items as genuine to London dealers, etc.
LOTS of serious reputations could be wrecked overnight...but what's the point?

In an average week I have more customers than the number of folk on the other forum that have had an issue with me...of the 4 people, 2 have their items back...Grey still needs his clips and Stijn still needs the old helmet liner he loaned me.

An out of proportion drama for 4 people? You tell me...
In the ten years I have traded full time I've had THREE items returned by customers. In ALL THREE cases the error was on the part of the buyer as they'd ordered the wrong size item.
I get ZERO returns. Nil...but on the other forum...I'm a HUGE problem, my work is shit and I cannot be trusted.

Again, I only joined this forum as I am interested in Finnish kit and units...but drama llamas will be drama llamas...nowt better than a good bitch and moan at the least provocation.
At least them moaning about me serves to distract attention away from what they're getting up to themselves!!


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 419
Location: Auchterarder, Schottland
Fair play, I haven't read the other thread.

May speak to you in the future for a set of scope caps for my No.32 if I get my finger out and get a shooter to put it on.

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erikbozwo2 wrote:
Pyotr, please don't take any advice from peiper.


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 Post subject: Re: Pebbled P38 holster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:23 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Missouri, USA
Nobody has brought up the use of pigskin as well. They did use that too, early and late in the war.


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