German WW1 field gear

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berlin1945
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German WW1 field gear

Post by berlin1945 »

German WW1 Field gear, in this war was all field gear ie shoulder straps, G98 frog, and the luger holster in particular brown in colour , or where they black or were both colours acceptable to use and any examples of the use of a black holster and black frog. I would appreciate any help in this matter
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Re: German WW1 field gear

Post by Gebirgsziege »

The Germans entered WWI with brown leather equipment, but in 1916 the Army ordered a change to black. A second part to the order was that brown items already issued were to be re-dyed black. Based upon the numbers of original items that are still brown, I would say that the order was often ignored or unable to be complied with. We will obviously never know the complete circumstances though. Take note that the majority of original items on the collector's market were made from black materials, but dyed-black often exist as well.


I would say that depending on your impression (rank/age/duty position), use the date of 1916 as a rough guide; before '16 all brown, '16-'17 mixture of factory produced brown and black (or all re-dyed black), '17-'18 all black.

David
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berlin1945
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Re: German WW1 field gear

Post by berlin1945 »

Gebirgsziege wrote:The Germans entered WWI with brown leather equipment, but in 1916 the Army ordered a change to black. A second part to the order was that brown items already issued were to be re-dyed black. Based upon the numbers of original items that are still brown, I would say that the order was often ignored or unable to be complied with. We will obviously never know the complete circumstances though. Take note that the majority of original items on the collector's market were made from black materials, but dyed-black often exist as well.


I would say that depending on your impression (rank/age/duty position), use the date of 1916 as a rough guide; before '16 all brown, '16-'17 mixture of factory produced brown and black (or all re-dyed black), '17-'18 all black.

David

Great advice, I was going to dress a Mannequinn in the fashion of the Casement brigade circa 1914 to 1916 and since I have a large amount of WW2 German leather work I would perhaps like to utilise these as well instead of buying new leather work, is there much of a difference between the G98 bayonet frog and the K98 bayonet frog or is it just WW1 version may have been brown and more of a pebbely feel to it .
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Re: German WW1 field gear

Post by mauser98 »

Hi,
German WW1 leather gear was initially brown in color. Sometime later in the war ( I believe late 1915) an order was written to blacken all leather gear. This seemed to have been ignored by many units and probably enforced by local unit commanders and blackened in the field. I say this because I've been collecting WW1 German for over 25 years and 98% of all my original leather equipment is brown and plenty of it is dated 1917 & 1918.
The only exception is that many jackboots seemed to have been blackened as the war progressed. So a mix of both black & brown leather gear is probably not very common. If you're putting together a kit, I'd go with brown personally ( I think it looks the best IMHO). Later war replacements probably encountered more blackened leather but again that's speculative.
I hope this helps
Jim
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Re: German WW1 field gear

Post by berlin1945 »

mauser98 wrote:Hi,
German WW1 leather gear was initially brown in color. Sometime later in the war ( I believe late 1915) an order was written to blacken all leather gear. This seemed to have been ignored by many units and probably enforced by local unit commanders and blackened in the field. I say this because I've been collecting WW1 German for over 25 years and 98% of all my original leather equipment is brown and plenty of it is dated 1917 & 1918.
The only exception is that many jackboots seemed to have been blackened as the war progressed. So a mix of both black & brown leather gear is probably not very common. If you're putting together a kit, I'd go with brown personally ( I think it looks the best IMHO). Later war replacements probably encountered more blackened leather but again that's speculative.
I hope this helps
Jim
mauser98

THANKS JIM very much appreciated , can i ask do the bayonet frogs differ if i stripped the black down and browned?

also is it just the pebbley effect that differs the two?
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Re: German WW1 field gear

Post by Brigardefuhrer »

Hi Mairtin,the G98 frog is slightly wider than the K98 frog because of the broader scabbard of the G98.John
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Re: German WW1 field gear

Post by berlin1945 »

Brigardefuhrer wrote:Hi Mairtin,the G98 frog is slightly wider than the K98 frog because of the broader scabbard of the G98.John
Many thanks John for your advice and same applies to all those that helped as I now know what to do to progess this.
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Re: German WW1 field gear

Post by mauser98 »

As John mentioned, the WW1 frogs were slightly larger to accomodate the wider G98 butcher blade scabbard. There was also a bayonet (84/98 I believe) that was almost identical to the WW2 version. The frog normally seen for that blade was the same as the WW2 98K frog in size. The finish was rough sids out and not pebbled. It was usually attached to the K98AZ Carbine. this carbine was commonly carried by Pioniers, cavalry, artillery and of course many Storm Troopers.
If done correctly you could strip down a WW2 frog (dismounted style sans securing strap) and redye it brown. If you're carrying a Gewehr 98 then a G98 frog is necessary.
Jim
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Re: German WW1 field gear

Post by berlin1945 »

mauser98 wrote:As John mentioned, the WW1 frogs were slightly larger to accomodate the wider G98 butcher blade scabbard. There was also a bayonet (84/98 I believe) that was almost identical to the WW2 version. The frog normally seen for that blade was the same as the WW2 98K frog in size. The finish was rough sids out and not pebbled. It was usually attached to the K98AZ Carbine. this carbine was commonly carried by Pioniers, cavalry, artillery and of course many Storm Troopers.
If done correctly you could strip down a WW2 frog (dismounted style sans securing strap) and redye it brown. If you're carrying a Gewehr 98 then a G98 frog is necessary.
Jim

Thanks John and Jim, I have a few g98's now and Smle's marked 1908 to 1919 along with a collection of bayonets to go with them, the Smle bayonet carriers are easy to get as people donate quite a lot to us and I have been able to get a new little collection of these together, it's amazing at the lectures and shows we do that the public just give you these things, recently I happened to mention at one weekend lecture I was after British WW1 stuff and over the course of that weekend was given origional insignia and 2 smle oil bottels and a pull through, the German stuff however appears to be more elusive, have a good weekend every one.
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