How dirty is your kit?

[Peter Bauer]

I don't really clean my kit. I wash my undershirts every now and then (after one hectic summer, all the sweat and grease accumulated in them made them kinda... stiff. Retained their shape very well). I do take care of leather parts and especially my shoes. Uniforms I don't really take care, just dust them off.

I learnt the importance of maintaining your shoes in the army through error. I ignored my combat boots and the leather rot from one side of my right shoe, which caused the sole to come off from that side and left a 5 finger wide hole in there. Not much fun during the winter, as the supply guys didn't want to give me replacements. AFter this I had to use our parade/vacation boots in the field and they had to be SPOTLESS when going home for the weekend or doing anything around the barracks. Learnt to take care of them on and off the field then

[mikebie]

I guess its a matter of personal taste. There was a similar discussion around shaving in the field with guys going the for the hard as f*ck look too. They were soon put in their place by the 3 veterans of FJR6 in Normandy who reproached them for that.

Standards were maintained in FJ outfits, in particular in FJR6 and cleanliness in the field was practiced except, of course, for their sojourns in Russia. Von der Heydte was an excellent commander and a stickler for detail. Hence the veterans' experiences.

In military terms, and some have touched on this already, kit cleanliness is practiced for many reasons, some of which include;

Hygiene - dirty uniforms, individuals etc. exacerbate complications in case of wounding.
Discipline - its important to maintain discipline in the field (Sajer's episode being a clear example).
Routine - there is nothing more destructive to morale than boredom and inactivity.
Readiness - for obvious reasons.

During my service we were always taught to maintain our kit in good condition, even in the midst of exercises. Partly for the reasons above, no doubt, but also beacuse you take the mindset into other areas, eg: weapons maintenance etc.

Each group has their own impression/portrayal and their kit will reflect this..so theres really no right or wrong in this sense.

In 13/FJR6 we keep our kit in good, serviceable condition. Sure it gets dirty in the field, and thats part of our image too,, but we often take the time out at Public events to rest, refit, mend etc. It compliments the impression...not to mention the fact thats the kit is expensive and looking after it extends its life!

[Gebirgsziege]

After having done Doughboy, GI reenacting along with 3 deployments to Iraq (2 of which in active combat), it all depends on what the core of your portrayal is. Soldiers get dirty, smelly, and downright filthy. But, they also get clean, and repair, or exchange uniforms and equipment. Living filthy can last days or even weeks but seldom longer than days. By then, breaks are found and personal care is always a huge personal and leadership priority. If Soldiers live in squalor for too long, illnesses can arise and morale will take a hit either way. It is funny that just last week a fellow Soldier (I'm still active duty Army) and I were discussing how the worst part of a long field problem is being and feeling dirty. The sleep deprivation, the cold, and the heat are all bothers, but pale in comparison to being greasy and dirty.

As many have pointed out, if you don't perform at least minimum maintenance on your kit, it will surely degrade, and fall apart. With that said, you must ask yourself how much do you want to spend on replacing items due to neglect either intended or unintended?

David

[Peter Bauer]

Personal hygiene is important, indeed. Being greasy is nasty, plus sleeping in tents with guys who smell like... well, smell exactly like what they've been doing (physical work for days without shower) is pretty horrible as well.

I believe the maximum time without somesort of shower in the finnish army tends to be between 6 and 8 days. In longer exercises we always had atleast one evening when you got to go to a Sauna. And this was very true for Finnish soldiers back in the 40's as well. It's also an amazing morale booster during the winter!

[feldman]

Personal hygiene is important, indeed. Being greasy is nasty, plus sleeping in tents with guys who smell like... well, smell exactly like what they've been doing (physical work for days without shower) is pretty horrible as well.

I believe the maximum time without somesort of shower in the finnish army tends to be between 6 and 8 days. In longer exercises we always had atleast one evening when you got to go to a Sauna. And this was very true for Finnish soldiers back in the 40's as well. It's also an amazing morale booster during the winter!

yep.. i was out 14 days in the field with Swedish army, on a bigger exercise, average 20-30 minus Celcius, and after 7 days we got 20 min shower time in some nearby house. Omg, it was better then sex, i almost fell asleep in the shower

Smells in the tents, biwaks, you get used to, you have bigger issues. Soldiers tend to smell in the field after some time no big deal, at least for me / my nose

[GraemeMac]

There's a difference to being a manky bastard and having dirty kit however!

[Peter Bauer]

Personal hygiene is important, indeed. Being greasy is nasty, plus sleeping in tents with guys who smell like... well, smell exactly like what they've been doing (physical work for days without shower) is pretty horrible as well.

I believe the maximum time without somesort of shower in the finnish army tends to be between 6 and 8 days. In longer exercises we always had atleast one evening when you got to go to a Sauna. And this was very true for Finnish soldiers back in the 40's as well. It's also an amazing morale booster during the winter!

yep.. i was out 14 days in the field with Swedish army, on a bigger exercise, average 20-30 minus Celcius, and after 7 days we got 20 min shower time in some nearby house. Omg, it was better then sex, i almost fell asleep in the shower

Smells in the tents, biwaks, you get used to, you have bigger issues. Soldiers tend to smell in the field after some time no big deal, at least for me / my nose

I had a guy in my group that probably had some health issues or something, since he smelled just... so bad. You didn't get used to the smell, it was a very stingy and powerful smell that you didn't get used to it

Smell in tents is alright as long as you don't have to leave it ;D which then again tends to happend all the time

[Peiper]

I guess its a matter of personal taste. There was a similar discussion around shaving in the field with guys going the for the hard as f*ck look too. They were soon put in their place by the 3 veterans of FJR6 in Normandy who reproached them for that.

Standards were maintained in FJ outfits, in particular in FJR6 and cleanliness in the field was practiced except, of course, for their sojourns in Russia. Von der Heydte was an excellent commander and a stickler for detail. Hence the veterans' experiences.

In military terms, and some have touched on this already, kit cleanliness is practiced for many reasons, some of which include;

Hygiene - dirty uniforms, individuals etc. exacerbate complications in case of wounding.
Discipline - its important to maintain discipline in the field (Sajer's episode being a clear example).
Routine - there is nothing more destructive to morale than boredom and inactivity.
Readiness - for obvious reasons.

During my service we were always taught to maintain our kit in good condition, even in the midst of exercises. Partly for the reasons above, no doubt, but also beacuse you take the mindset into other areas, eg: weapons maintenance etc.

Each group has their own impression/portrayal and their kit will reflect this..so theres really no right or wrong in this sense.

In 13/FJR6 we keep our kit in good, serviceable condition. Sure it gets dirty in the field, and thats part of our image too,, but we often take the time out at Public events to rest, refit, mend etc. It compliments the impression...not to mention the fact thats the kit is expensive and looking after it extends its life!

Tbh i think imo that towards the end of the War apart from personal hygene i dont think the Germans cared much
about the appearence of their uniforms/boots etc as long as their weapons were maintained and worked that i think
was what mattered, not carrying bags of soap and boot polish into combat but boxes of ammo and grenades etc,
that is the sort of realistic look that i portray, apart from parades etc obviously.

Also i think things were in short supply in Germany anyway and soldiers had to purchase their own cleaning/washing
products and since none had returned home for a long while i imagine getting hold of such things was difficult, you
have only have to look at pics dating from 1944 onwards, apart from a few exeptions of rear echelon troops, the main
frontline Soldier looked for the most part very shabby/dirty.

It reminds me of an episode of Sharpe starring Sean Bean, when one Aristoctatic officer berrated Sharp for the
condition of himself and his men lol

"Look at your men, you are a disgrace Sir" (officer)

"Uniforms are dirty Sir, rifles are clean" (Sharpe)

Always makes me smile that lol

Pipes.

[feldman]

reenactors = appearence

soldiers = maintenance

[Franz repper]

One of the first things you learn in the army is to look after you and you equipment the German army in the 1940s was the same ! Look after your equipment and it will look after YOU ! you can still fight with a pair of trousers that you have ripped but your boots fall apart your Fecked as Peter found out to his cost. In the German wehrmacht you would be charged if you was found to abused or Neglected a piece
of equipment not cleaning boots and uniform came under this .

Tbh i think imo that towards the end of the War apart from personal hygene i dont think the Germans cared much
about the appearence of their uniforms/boots etc as long as their weapons were maintained and worked that i think
was what mattered, not carrying bags of soap and boot polish into combat but boxes of ammo and grenades etc,
that is the sort of realistic look that i portray, apart from parades etc obviously.

I am sorry to say Herr Peiper that is a load of Toss if equipment such as boots are in short supply you will look after your even more ! As you might not get a replacement pair . Soldiers washed and tried to keep clean as this would stop the spread of disease one man with the shits could nock out a whole section I know it has been done .

[Peiper]

Tbh i think imo that towards the end of the War apart from personal hygene i dont think the Germans cared much
about the appearence of their uniforms/boots etc as long as their weapons were maintained and worked that i think
was what mattered, not carrying bags of soap and boot polish into combat but boxes of ammo and grenades etc,
that is the sort of realistic look that i portray, apart from parades etc obviously.

I am sorry to say Herr Peiper that is a load of Toss if equipment such as boots are in short supply you will look after your even more ! As you might not get a replacement pair . Soldiers washed and tried to keep clean as this would stop the spread of disease one man with the shits could nock out a whole section I know it has been done .

Fair comment Franz, i understand what your saying, obviously hygene was an important issue as i mentioned
above, but how do you explain the original pics, dating from late 43, 44 45 where the appearence of the average
German Landser looked very dirty, unkempt and scruffy, i think this is reality of War

Admittedly it is healthy to be hygenic, clean, but sometimes for weeks on end the average combat soldier did not
have the means or time to do so, in some cases they resorted to stealing dead mens boots when there own fell
apart, this happened on both sides of the front-line.

The only difference with the Allies was they were pulled out of the line periodically to get replacement kit but for
the most part the Germans were not as far as iam aware, they made do with what they had got or could find during
this later War period as far as i could tell from ref books, biographies etc.

Regards Pipes

[Franz repper]

Fair comment Franz, i understand what your saying, obviously hygene was an important issue as i mentioned
above, but how do you explain the original pics, dating from late 43, 44 45 where the appearence of the average
German Landser looked very dirty, unkempt and scruffy, i think this is reality of War

Admittedly it is healthy to be hygenic, clean, but sometimes for weeks on end the average combat soldier did not
have the means or time to do so, in some cases they resorted to stealing dead mens boots when there own fell
apart, this happened on both sides of the front-line.

The only difference with the Allies was they were pulled out of the line periodically to get replacement kit but for
the most part the Germans were not as far as iam aware, they made do with what they had got or could find during
this later War period as far as i could tell from ref books, biographies etc.

Regards Pipes

Herr Peiper if you see below the photos dated a round 1944 the soldiers are front line and do have some uniform look to them their equipment and boots are in good order even if the have a light coating of mud/snow . As for steeling dead mans boots it did happen but not as often as Hollywood let us think .

Estnische Freiwillige vor einem neuen Einsatz
Bei den schweren Abwehrkämpfen zwischen Ilmensee und Finnischen Meerbusen haben sie sich durch Tapferkeit und zähes Aushalten als treue und verlässliche Kameraden erwiesen.
PK-Biehler 11.3.1944




Angriff im Morgengrauen!
Glühende Hitze verbreiten die brennenden Häuser. Die ausgefrorenen und von den Kämpfen
ermüddeten Männer wärmen sich in der Nähe der Brandstellen auf.
SS-PK A. Ahrens 23.3.1944


Für den Ostwinter gerüstet.
Dieser Winteranzug ist nach den praktischen Erfahrungen der beiden vorhergegangenen russischen Winterfeldzügen geschaffen worden.
Das kann doppelseitig getragen werden und lässt sich so auch als ausgezeichneten Tarnanzug gebrauchen.
PK Hähle 5.11.1943

[Peiper]

Cheers Franz for that, you can see what i mean though apart from the bottom 1943 pic
which looks like they have just been issued winter equipment, in the other pics they do
look a bit grubby, thats what im saying, although i know what you mean, compared to
some late pics they look positively clean, but you still get that grubby appearence on
combat pics even just slightly, depending on how long the men have been in combat ??

Thanks for sharing, regards Peiper

[Franz repper]

Yes the soldiers have a grubby look to them but you will see that their equipment is clean as their lives depend on it working those photos are dated 1943 to 1944 I have some 1945 ones as well .
The quality of the uniform cloth during the war deteriorated this gave the soldiers a shoddy look after time in the field this would be exaggerated

[Peter Bauer]

Just my one cent on support of Franz, I do think from my own experience and from what I've read an seen is that you do tend to take care of the things you are issued with. Especially the stuff that is really important to your survival. Shaving your face might not be the number one priority when you are fighting for weeks in a row but you would make sure you're belt andpouches were working. As well as shoes.