RAL code for Early War M35

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Feldjager
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Feldjager »

Under the RAL 840R register, 6003 is olivgrün - this formed part of the 3 colour scheme introduced in 1943 and from early 1945 was the base colour for all new vehicles entering service. It is too dark for the pre/early war green used on helmets.

I seem to recall it was used by the Luftwaffe as well - aircraft camo?
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Stigroadie

Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Stigroadie »

Building camo.
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Sheikh Al Stranghi »

Sven Meyer wrote:6003 is o
Pug42 wrote:??? RAL 6003 is Olivgrun (used on vehicle camo schemes) not Apfelgrun...
Olivgrun is the same as Applegrun :wink: .Afcourse they used it as ''green'' on a commohelmet.
See Dave's post above...
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Feldjager »

6003 is not the green used pre and early war as it is too dark; find an original item of equipment and compare it to a swatch of 6003 (the picture Bergführer posted above of the helmet is not 6003 as it's too light and the wrong hue). It was not introduced (officially) for equipment use prior to October 1943 as that is when HTV.Bl 1943/376 came into effect, though HM181/1943 did introduce it earlier for use in Africa and Crete.

The name 'apple green' seems to be an erroneous name used (in the same manner as 'tan and water' for the sumpftarnmuster camo pattern) - the name 'apple green' isn't used in the RAL 840R series. You can see the list of those colours currently still listed here - http://www.ralcolor.com/ - note that this is the modern chart as 7028 is removed, but the German names are those that were in use when the whole system was revised in the early 30).
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Kradschuetze
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Kradschuetze »

Hallo,
.
Vielleicht hilft Euch folgender Link weiter:

http://www.militaria-fundforum.com/show ... p?t=107731

Die Seite ist zwar auf deutsch, aber informativ.

Grüße


Hello,
.
Perhaps you can help further the following link:

http://www.militaria-fundforum.com/show ... p?t=107731

The site is in German, but informative.

Regards
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Feldjager »

I've seen that forum before - I'd like to know the original source citing 6003 is 'apfelgrün' with the appropriate HM reference.

Apple source...? :lol:

I'm not saying I am correct, but the evidence I have examined suggests 6003 is not the correct code.
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Kradschuetze
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Kradschuetze »

Achso, wie schon geschrieben, sind die heutigen RAL Tabellen zu neu.
So wurden sie Anfang der 30er, dann 1940 abgeändert. Anfang der 50er Jahre wurden sie dann komplett umgearbeitet, wobei dann Farben wie Dunkelgelb einfach verschwanden, oder Farben so verändert worden, das sie total anders aussehen...siehe Apfelgrün. Noch vor zwei Jahren, als ich Dunkelgelb für mein zweites Motorrad brauchte, gab es weder die neue noch alte Ral Nummer, auch in Foren konnte man mir nicht weiterhelfen...Das Drama ging so lange, bis ich einen Gurtkasten in einer verlassenen Mühle fand und ich mir die Farbe anmischen lassen konnte.
So bringt auch der Gang mit der neuen oder alten Ral Nummer 6003 zum Autofarbenhandel nichts. Entweder ihr lasst nach Muster anmischen oder ihr kauft im Fachhandel.
Grüße

As already written, the current RAL tables again.
They were changed in the early 30s, then 1940th Early 50s, they were then completely reworked, with colors such as dark yellow then simply disappeared, or been altered in color, they look totally different ... see apple green. Just two years ago when I needed dark yellow for my second bike, there was neither new nor old Ral number, even on forums could not help me ... The drama went so long before I found one in an abandoned mill Gurtkasten and I could be mixing my paint.
Similarly, the passage brings the new or old Ral number 6003 to the car color trade anything. Either you let mixing according to sample or buy it in stores.

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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Feldjager »

The system was revised in the 1930s - it was renamed 840R. In theory if you ask for RAL1001 today, you should get the same colour as you would have in 1939 as the whole point is that the colours are standarised with minimal deviation (however even with computer controlled mixing, there is a slight variation in the hues). 7028 was removed for reasons unknown, as were several other colours, however those that remain keep the same name they were assigned in the 30s.

I'm not quite sure if we're agreeing or not...?

Back to the original point:

What was the colour for the early war green?
It was mooted as being 6003 - however the evidence I have makes this highly improbable as the earliest mention of this is early 43 for use on equipment in North Africa and Crete. I am therefore not convinced it is 6003 in the RAL 840R range (not the 840HR, RAL-F9, 840GL, RAL-Effect or RAL-Design ranges of colours - these are different).

I have a Torn Fu b1 radio set which is, I think, painted apple green. When I get a chance, I'll open it up (interior paint hasn't been subjected to UV light or oils which could discolour) and I'll see if a match can be done. Bet it isn't 6003... :wink:
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Sven Meyer
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Sven Meyer »

I am pretty sure that ral6003 ist Apfel.....granny smith :D
I made many helmets with that number.To dark for helmets? no Sir i often find it to bright.
What i did? i mix ral6003 with a few% 6006!...
be were that you have got the right paint supplier,FRICKWORK.DE is the answer.
ask for ''Stupfmatt''.
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Sven Meyer »

Luftwaffe: Anthrazit grau: RAL 7016

Wehrmacht:
Apfelgrün: RAL 6003
Dunkel olive-grau: RAL 6006
Mittel olive-grau: RAL 7008
Hell olive-grau: RAL 7009

Camouflage:
Dunkel_gelb: RAL 7028
Gelb-braun: RAL 8000
Rot-braun: RAL 8017
Braun: RAL 8020

"Field-repainted":
RAL7027 (dunkelgrau)

Sandgelb:
RAL 1001, RAL 1002 (beige, sandgelb)
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Feldjager »

Sven Meyer wrote:Luftwaffe: Anthrazit grau: RAL 7016

Wehrmacht:
Apfelgrün: RAL 6003
Dunkel olive-grau: RAL 6006
Mittel olive-grau: RAL 7008
Hell olive-grau: RAL 7009

Camouflage:
Dunkel_gelb: RAL 7028
Gelb-braun: RAL 8000
Rot-braun: RAL 8017
Braun: RAL 8020

"Field-repainted":
RAL7027 (dunkelgrau)

Sandgelb:
RAL 1001, RAL 1002 (beige, sandgelb)
What's your source for that list?
Feldgendarmerie Trupp 82 - http://www.feldgendarmerie.co.uk
Panzer Nachrichten Abt. 38 - http://www.funker.co.uk
Hauptverbandplatz 82 - http://www.hvp82.co.uk

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Sheikh Al Stranghi
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Sheikh Al Stranghi »

Probably "Wehrmacht Combat Helmets 1933 - 1945" but that doesn't mean the book is correct. It's a Osprey.
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Re: RAL code for Early War M35

Post by Mooyman »

I still like to knowe what the number is of early paint on m35 helmets...
(the fresh one)
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The best repro is an original...
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