Sumpftarn helmetcovers.

[erikbozwo2]

A lot of people think they don't excist..

Lets discuss here!

Here you go an original picture that seems to show an original example.


I've found another few on Wehrmacht awards.

[A.Weiss]

http://www.sumpftarn44.blogspot.com/

A.Weiß

[Stigroadie]

That photo seems to show a 3 panel construction, that would suggest field made. Regular German helmet cover production features 5 panels.
The sumpf blog is old, way old and not a very reliable source. He seems to have what looks very much like a SMWholesale sumpf parka in his collection. It is not identified as such, either he does not know or is pretending it isnt. Either way it's not promising as a research tool.
The burden of proof lies with those making the claims. You claim to have seen 5 factory made issue sumpf helmet covers. It is your job to prove this. Support your claims with some evidence. Photos are a good start, something as rare as a sumpf cover would surely warrant recording, 5 would have me calling the press.
All you have given us is a story, an anecdote. Anecdotes are not good evidence, the plural of anecdote is not data.

[Franz repper]

Not shure on this one photo is in my collection ,nice helmet net as well

[Ropes]

[Stigroadie]

I dont think we are debating the existence of these sumpf covers. There are clearly a good number out there. The debate for me centers around the 'issue vs custom' question.
What evidence exists to show they were ever an issue item?

[erikbozwo2]

I think its not Issued like other stuff. Seeing that all of the existing covers are made of very thin material, I believe these where prototypes, handed out to troops. Like many things in the german army, forget textbook. Only thing is that these are rare. I think these things never came any further then testing/prototype status.

[Stigroadie]

Then my original statement holds true? Why is a manufacturer wasting time and money in making repros of something that would not be found with the landser?

[Franz repper]

Then my original statement holds true? Why is a manufacturer wasting time and money in making repros of something that would not be found with the landser?

That is true Stig but we are talking reenactors here "OH thats shiney I will have one !"

[Stigroadie]

Yes, no matter how wrong it might be.
Just because some clown will sell you something does not make it correct. Shops/dealers/vendors exist to make money not do your basic research for you.
Pea dot caps, sumpf helmet covers and wool insignia on M43 caps, all may have existed but were so rare and unusual that it would be a waste of money to buy them.
The sumpf smock was provided with a generous hood so a helmet cover was not required.

[erikbozwo2]

Then my original statement holds true? Why is a manufacturer wasting time and money in making repros of something that would not be found with the landser?

I mean to say that these where issued, but in small quantities to test them out on the front. Just like the m44 uniform was sent to fronline troops for testing out.

[Stigroadie]

But there is NO evidence for this, other than your statement.
I can tell you there is a teapot orbiting in the Kuiper belt. Without evidence why should you believe me?
Without evidence for the issue of Sumpf covers we should not use them. It's bad logic and bad practice.

[GRFJ]

In "Camouflage Uniforms of the German Wehrmacht" by W. Palinckx the author states that judging by the construction details and quality of some helmet covers in Marsh p[attern he comes to the conclusion that they were indeed factory made and not always - as thought - field made.
I personally have no idea as it is not my area of study, collection or reenactment but I throw it here for conversation's sake.

[Stigroadie]

And useful it is. I have read the section and it still only amounts to an opinion, an expert opinion but still an opinion.
I am not denying that there is every possibility there are factory made issue sumpf covers. I just dont see enough to convince me.

[GRFJ]

I'd agree on that!
There's a similar on going debate regarding marsh covers for Fj helmets.
Examples have been found, construction, material, quality were there on top with the Splitter ones but not a single photo to back them up.
Common sense (as common as it may be) dictates that if they produced green smocks and covers, Splinter smocks and covers why have Marsh smocks and no covers ?
But I wholeheartedly agree that repro makers could create much more useful things or indeed better the quality of what they do instead of producing "exotic" and out of the norm items.