Designations

[Hoffman Grink]

Maybe this will go down better here and nto get spammed or off topic....

Do you know which order these go in ?(Smallest first)

Regiment
Squad
Division
Platoon
Battalion
Company

[Gunter]

Regiment
Squad
Division
Platoon
Battalion
Company

Squad, Platoon, Company, Battalion, Division.

[Hoffman Grink]

What about Regiment?

[Gunter]

Oops, knew I'd forgotten something. Insert after Company.

[Hoffman Grink]

Korrekt.
Now - Dodgy ground here......

In a Pz Gr Regiment then - 43 or 44 - How many of what in each? Starting with Men in a Squad, Squads in a Platoon etc. And after that we can insert HQ Companies etc...... Go one - let's see how much we know.... Good learning tool this eh?

[Reinhard]

changed many times through the course of the war this one but typically it was
10 men to a squad
3 squads to a platoon
4 platoons to a company
4 or 5 companies to a Battallion however some had 3
normally 2 battallions to a regiment

this applied purely to the grenadier regiments as divisions also incorporated panzer ,flak ,fg and others in there make up and the size of these tended to vary according to the division

trust you to start a complicated thread Herr Dollman

Rich

p.s it was totally different for recon though

[Feldjager]

Somewhere inb one of my files I have a complete set of KStNs - I'll have a look and see what I can find later. I know I have a Pz Gren Kp for '41 as well as Stbs.Kp. for Pz Gren.

From memory, a Pz Gren Kp in 41-42 was about 7 officers, 26NCOs and 175 EM. This varied later war as the inclusion of support weapons and signallers came under the umbrella of the Kp. KStNs rather than those of a higher echelon. Its not an easy subject!

Just to throw a spanner in the works, once you start looking at formations above divisional level, it gets difficult as these higher ecehlons were situation driven - an armeegruppe, armee or korps formation could change on almost a daily basis. Korps also shrink and expand on a monthly basis, again according to the situation - this is reflected in the organisational listings for formations over and above division (I personally feel that it was this ability of the German Army for move large groups around and form ad hoc units that was one of its greater strengths).

[Gunter]

Bit of light reading for those who want to know more about the make-up of units!

"The German Order Of Battle: German Infantry In WW2"

and

"The German Order Of Battle: Panzers and Artillery In WW2"

and

"The German Order Of Battle: Waffen SS and Other Units In WW2"

all by George F. Nafziger

[Hoffman Grink]

Nice one Guys - Dave - I was going to get onto HQ and Stabs as well as Flak, Signals etc. But am trying to present numbers and make up in a digestible way in order that people take it in and remember it. Strikes me that although a lot of folk know what to wear, when it was worn and how to wear it... Unlike thee and me, they don't know a lot about how many of them there should be and where they fit into the grand scheme of things...... (Hence 4 man units comprising of a Colonel, a Major, a Spiess and a Grenadier calling themselves a Kompanie!)

Looks like we made a good start....

So a Squad (in German a Gruppe) would typically be, at full strength, 12 men - in an SPW - Driver, Co Driver, Squadleader/Vehicle Commander, Assistant Leader, 2 MG Gunners, No2s, 4 Riflemen............

Three Squads plus a HQ Vehicle comprising of a Platoon (Zug) Commander, (Junior Officer or a Senior NCO in SOME instances)Driver, Radio Operator, 2 runners, A MEDIC and some form of anti tank weapon would total 42 men at full strength. Can we agree on that?

[Gunter]

Some books say 45-47 but I think 42 is more realistic.

[352nd]

squads are 10 men (sometimes known as sections) lead by a corporal

platoons are 30 men lead by a junior leftenant

companies are 120 men and sometimes a field gun and halftrack and likly to have a motorbike and or kubel attached to them lead by a captain

battalions are 1500 men with a one or two field guns and several motorbikes and kubels lead by a leftenant coronel or coronel

regiments are 6000 men with a large regiment gun and several smaller field guns and several vehicles, lead by a leftenant or major general

and divisions are 12000 up again with many field guns and vehicles. there usually about four or five regiments. lead by a coronel general or general of the wehrmacht

[Feldjager]

If only it were that simple...

For example, looking at the KStN for the 1st platoon (zug) of an Armoured type 'c' Panzer Grenadier Company in August 1943, it consisted of 1 officer, 8 NCOs and 28 EM (total 37). Looking at the same KStN 9 months later, and it has increased to 1 officer, 9 NCOs and 32 EM (total 42). The fluidity of the organisational element of any unit at low or high echelons makes pinning an exact level of manpower difficult unless you pick a very specific date and location.

The numbers above look a bit British Army to be honest - even the level of command can vary within the Wehrmacht (Feldgendarmerie companies, for example, can be commanded by a Captain, Major or even Lieutenant Colonel if the parent formation necessitates it!

[352nd]

your correct. i based what i wrote on the British army, but i the stuff about field weapons and vehicle i know are German. it's basicly a rough estermate really. Most fighting units were destoryed or took heavy casualties anyway.

[Gott Mit Uns]

your correct. i based what i wrote on the British army, but i the stuff about field weapons and vehicle i know are German. it's basicly a rough estermate really. Most fighting units were destoryed or took heavy casualties anyway.

I hope one day I have half of your knowledge.

[352nd]

can i hear a hit of sacaism in your voice or are you really likeling my work?