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 Post subject: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Hello My name is Steve and I am 15 years old. I wonder if anybody would be able to help me with a new project.
I bought a second hand M36 tunic and would like to add insignia which is panzer/panzergrenedier related .
I was wondering if you would be kind enough to help me with some questions I have please.
I understand the M36 tunic was used right though the war with various and differing insignia i.e. chest insignia wool or bevo, green background or not, should shoulder boards be bottle green or grey and piping seems to be open to some confusion between the greens, and if they were only used very late in the war . Also I have read some panzer troops would have worn pink or white piping depending on the unit.
Also confused about litzen, which generic ones would have been worn by these troops? And also I have seen enlisted mans pink collar tabs which I read were used early on in the war.
I also believe it could have been a mixture of both or all of the above and early insignia was not replaced by some troops.
If it comes down to personal choice and to avoid the green debate I was thinking I would use an M36 wool green backed chest eagle with bottle green shoulder boards with pink piping and the cardboard backed style pink collar tabs. But I want to be accurate and also wonder if this would be limited to a very short period of the war or not .
Any help you can give me would be very much appreciated and valued .
Thanks again Steve


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Aye-up :wink:

which one = Panzer ? or panzergrenadier ?

What unit ?

What point in the war ?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:17 pm 
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Hello thanks for the reply just wanted to make sure that whichever I chose suited the tunic and was accurate so probably early to mid war panzer.
just greatful for any help you can give me please. Steve


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Steve
I am afraid that to do Panzer as in Tank Crew you need the black "sonderbekleidung fur Panzertruppen" which is the black wool double breasted short jacket and baggy closed ankle trousers.

To do Panzer Grenadier you can use your field grey M36 tunic. The piping you require is GRASS Green. This is brighter than bottle green but not as light as Light Green of Gebirgsjaeger or Mountain Troops.

Your choice of insignia can reflect the ones which would be on the tunic as issued - Therefore a wool eagle on a bottle green backing is permissible - And your collar patches can be With grass green "litzen" (or lights) on them - also on a bottle green wool backing. If the tunic had been re-issued or taken from stores midwar then it could have a BeVo eagle applied straight on - Or even a BeVo eagle that had been applied to a bottle green wool backing! Collar patches could be the universal ones - again applied straight to the tunic or with bottle green backing.

Your best bet is to trawl books and look for GOOD pictures of originals on forums such as Wehrmacht Awards or on dealers/auction websites and model the tunic on that. Don't go too high a rank and don't over bling it with medals and decorations.

Make a good job of a well badged, representational and typical, understated tunic and you will have something you can be proud of.

Good luck.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Hello thanks for your reply I don't think I really explained it very well with so much to learn.
I wanted to portray support troops to the tanks and read that before the green litzen and piping on shoulder boards of the Panzergrenadier they could have worn the white of the infantry or some wore the pink to show their association with the panzer crews.
Don't mean to be annoying, but really would like to get it right.
Any comments will be so helpful and thanks for your time and patience.
All the best Steve


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Very early on some motorcycle troops wore the grass green - and some panzergrenadiers wore the pink. (GD wore white )
But unless your being super early/specific, i'd do as Mr grink has suggested and stick with the Grass green.
its an early war tunic - so you might as well aply the the dark green, piped grass green boards and the grass green lighted / green backed collar litzen and the backed eagle. it looks nicer than the generic - and you know you'll want to get a later tunic style at some point - bung the late / generic gear on that.

That'll do you well for 40-43.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Thanks guys for your fast replies and time.
Any chance you could recommend a supplier for a good repro of this insignia please.
All the best Steve.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:08 pm 
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absolute best ? quite possibly GD43.com

More local ? http://www.richardaunderwood.com/index.php

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:15 pm 
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Gliderinf wrote:
and the grass green lighted / green backed collar litzen

Did these even exist for panzergrendiers?
They were long out of use before the Panzergrenadiers were even formed.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Are you reading my desription as meaning something differant to the way the Grink put it ?

Grass green introduced 6th july 1939 - for most units that would later be termed Panzergrenadiers.

Obviously this doesnt happen overnight and some units wore yellow / white / pink later than this.

But backed / branch lighted litzen was manufactured long after this date. So plenty should have been made.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:35 pm 
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"This is brighter than bottle green but not as light as Light Green of Gebirgsjaeger or Mountain Troops"

Mountain / jager green is Medium green, darker than Grass green.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:39 pm 
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I don't think so. I'm questioning the use of waffenfarbe coloured litzen by panzer grenadiers. The Grink suggests it as do you?
I'm doubting it's use by panzer grenadier formations regardless of the tunic or backing to the litzen.
The use of such insignia was suspended some years before the formation of the panzer grenadiers as I understand things. There might have been some gebirgs or the generic with green lights still in stock but would they have made a pzr gren version of a redundant item?
That's my question.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Are you saying the werent making lights in 42 ? or in 39 ?

Of the top of my head i'm thinking the first universal was brought in around 38 - but they didnt stop making coloured versions at that point.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:14 pm 
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It's one of those tricky questions. When did they stop, start, adopt, suspend. For our OP would the safest bet not be to adopt the generic route? It allows him, with only a swap of shoulder boards to be flexible.
He is young with the often limited budget that goes with youth. I would council that the norm/generic is a better path than the specific. The joy of the generic route is that you can rarely be wrong.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Well he was specifically after early-ish Panzergrenadier - but we were kind of pushing him in a more adaptable direction with the Grass green rather than the Pink. So yes early generic litzen would make the tunic cover a lot more ground.

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