M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

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m1steelpot
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by m1steelpot »

The Litzen with the matching secondary color to the Waffenfarbe ceased production in 1938. They may have existed in stocks past this date, but the majority of "issue" M36 Feldbluse I have seen or handled have had the "Generic" M38 type Litzen. I'm not talking tailored NCO Feldbluse, or "Geschönte" Feldblus for walking-out. At the same time, many of the "Waffenfarbe-matching" Litzen I have seen were added postwar. Both my original M36 and M42 had these added by a collector or whoever did the restoration.

This is a standard "M36" Feldbluse without the Waffenfarbe-corresponding Litzen.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... hlight=M36

Here is a "1941" dated M36 Feldbluse with generic Litzen. This Feldbluse was probably produced in early 1940 and accepted into a WH Uniform depot in 1941.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... hlight=M36

With "Generic" Litzen, one can still do an early impression, but can switch it with a swap of shoulderboards and Soldbuch.

Also, "Grass Green" is like this color: COLOR
"Light Green" for Gebirgs. is more like this: COLOR

Pre 1942 Grass Green was for Schützen units. Post 1942 for Panzergrenadiere. Some Panzergrenadier Divisions had "Infanterie-Regimenter" or "Grenadier-Regimenter" that had white piped boards. (Like Gren. Rgt. 8 of 3. PzGren Div.)

You need to research the unit and see what they had.
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nrs
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by nrs »

Hi thanks for everybody's comments, very interesting to hear what you all think.
If I have got this right I could go with green backed chest eagle, bottle green with grass green piping shoulder boards and early generic litzen. I have read that you can get these on a green wool backing which will make it easier to sew on, would this be a mistake?
I am thinking of getting these from Richard Underwood so will this be a good description for him to know what I am after.
Thanks so much everybody for helping me out I really do appreciate it.
All the best Steve
Hoffman Grink

Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by Hoffman Grink »

That is a good course of action and Thank God someone listens, takes notice and makes a good informed decision
Speak with Richard and discuss your requirements with him - He will advice and send you the required insignia. He may even advise on sewing correctly (as zig zag stitching is the most commonly found method of attaching insignia)
He can offer a sewing service if your pocket extends to it.
Richard is old school - in fact old, old school and he will steer you in the right direction.
m1steelpot
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by m1steelpot »

Hoffman Grink wrote:That is a good course of action and Thank God someone listens, takes notice and makes a good informed decision
Speak with Richard and discuss your requirements with him - He will advice and send you the required insignia. He may even advise on sewing correctly (as zig zag stitching is the most commonly found method of attaching insignia)
He can offer a sewing service if your pocket extends to it.
Richard is old school - in fact old, old school and he will steer you in the right direction.
Depends on the garment. The zig-zag stitching is more common on later war Feldbluse, not so much M36's. M36's (with original applied insignia) seem to have mostly handsewn breast eagles.

Also I would not get Grass-green piped bottlegreen boards. Go for Feldgrau if you want this, otherwise you will essentially be doing a Schützen impression pre 1942. If you want to go with the bottlegreen boards, I'd choose white piping as it's by far the most common.
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Steiner
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by Steiner »

RAU said that generic Litzen was being produced in 1938, but as he said to me: "reenactors like their Waffenfarbe colours". :wink:
"Stop that!!! Careful with my J-J!"
m1steelpot
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by m1steelpot »

Steiner wrote:RAU said that generic Litzen was being produced in 1938, but as he said to me: "reenactors like their Waffenfarbe colours". :wink:
And therein lies the issue. Reenactorisms and "what looks cool" often triumph over a presentation of historical reality. The same concept comes hand-in-hand with reenactors wanting "matching" uniforms, meaning the same shade of wool used overall. To the reenactor, it makes sense things match.
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Gliderinf
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by Gliderinf »

Well there doesnt seem to be an issue here ?

He wanted to know what was correct - this was discussed - a conclusion was come too. that is pretty much the same conclusion you came too - except you desided to come in late - lay the smackdown and get on your high horse for no apparent reason.

Calm the ----- down.


Also I would not get Grass-green piped bottlegreen boards. Go for Feldgrau if you want this, otherwise you will essentially be doing a Schützen impression pre 1942. If you want to go with the bottlegreen boards, I'd choose white piping as it's by far the most common.

He wanted it for early war - So dark green boards with grass green piping is correct for units in Panzer Divivions that will later be called Panzergrenadier. (already discussed )

RAU said that generic Litzen was being produced in 1938, but as he said to me: "reenactors like their Waffenfarbe colours".

I already said that generic came in 1938.
Gliderinf / Luftlande
Hoffman Grink

Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by Hoffman Grink »

GliderInf - You can see now why I can't be bothered arguing any more - and I seldom emerge to either help or castigate...........
The OP seems to be a rather mature teenager who, I think, having read the information supplied by several people, make a set of informed decisions and put together a good representational garment.

The Internet - Dividing People since 1982 (sits back and waits for some smartarse to dispute date)
nrs
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by nrs »

Hello didn’t mean to cause you all a load of hassle, but just wanted to get an accurate tunic even if it means it’s limited to a certain period. If it can do more than that, great. To confuse things more I found bottle green shoulder boards with white piping in one of the pockets. I didn’t really start with any fixed ideas as wanted the impression to fit the tunic rather than try to make the tunic fit something not correct, but if it could be panzer support troop panzergrenadier or armour related that would be good.
I have noticed that shoulder boards sold as panzergrenadier vary in colour between websites epic look very dark although say grass green, another state “correct colour” and look the same colour as M1 Steelpot posted which was a great help. I also read ATF show one colour and send another. I just want to check that what I get is the right colour.
If I am not too confused I am still good to go with
Green backed early m36 chest eagle or bevo
Early generic litzen either green backed or sewn direct to collar.(I am a bit worried about cutting, glueing and folding unbacked litzen ) would you know if they are available already done please.
Shoulder boards bottle green with white piping the ones I found or purchase field grey with grass green piping.
Thanks for letting me make my mistakes here rather than at an event and really do appreciate all your help. Hope to catch up with you at an event in the future.
All the best Steve
nrs
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by nrs »

Sorry just to add if I did get bottle green boards with grass green piping that would be early war Shutzen?
Thanks Steve
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Gliderinf
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by Gliderinf »

Either of the places I recomeneded can do you the Litzen ready mounted.

Shoulder board wise - its dark green with grass green rather than feldgrau with grass green - as its an early war tunic and you wanted early war. this CAN be worn all the way through - though Ideally for late war - you'd get a later tunic with feldgrau boards.
You can of course use the white piped that you already have. this is good for infantry - or GD or supposedly most grenadiers in panzergrenadier divisions (although meant to swtch to grass green) mostly wore white.
But for infantry within panzerdivisions - grass green. (excepting certain exceptions)

Pretty much any conversation on the internet is likely to have an argument in it. don't worry about it.
Gliderinf / Luftlande
m1steelpot
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by m1steelpot »

Gliderinf wrote:Either of the places I recomeneded can do you the Litzen ready mounted.

Shoulder board wise - its dark green with grass green rather than feldgrau with grass green - as its an early war tunic and you wanted early war. this CAN be worn all the way through - though Ideally for late war - you'd get a later tunic with feldgrau boards.
You can of course use the white piped that you already have. this is good for infantry - or GD or supposedly most grenadiers in panzergrenadier divisions (although meant to swtch to grass green) mostly wore white.
But for infantry within panzerdivisions - grass green. (excepting certain exceptions)

Pretty much any conversation on the internet is likely to have an argument in it. don't worry about it.
You're right. I'm from the US and I've purchased kit from RAU. It was of superb quality and I'm sure the insignia he'll supply will be fine.

Steve,

Keep your bottlegreen boards w/white piping. With these you can do so many units throughout the entirety of the war.

I have recently become very confused about Inf. within Panzer-Divisionen. I have seen pink piped boards with a gothic "S" and Regt. number for Schützen, and at the same time have read and seen grassgreen being indicative of Schützen. I would be willing to bet at this point that it depends on a unit/unit basis, and that one cannot make a conclusive statement about Waffenfarbe for these units.

If you have some cash on hand, it may be best to get a few boards. It is true, with an M36 Feldbluse you can do the whole war, and with a combination of shoulderboards you can update that single feldbluse and use it throughout. In films such as Die große Liebe (1942) there are scenes where one sees actual WH troops, many in M36's with Feldgrau boards.

I would suggest the following:
Keep your white-piped bottlegreen boards. They are good for early war and snazzing up a later war Feldbluse if that floats your boat. Get a pair of grassgreen piped bottlegreen boards for pre 1942 Schützen, and a pair of Feldgrau boards w/grassgreen piping.

I am lucky in that I portray a guy in a Gren. Rgt., I just wear white. Then I come across photos of men from the unit I portray, and find stuff like this. (Photo credit: collection of Chris Pittman) This photo was taken in 1945, after the unit (Gren. Rgt. 8.) became PzGren. Rgt 8 and officially switched to the grassgreen PzGren waffenfarbe. At the same time, a senior officer of Gren. Rgt. 29 (also of 3. PzGren Div.) had a commemorative poster made for his promotion before the unit switched to a PzGren Rgt. In the colored poster is a stylized image of the man (Gerhard Türke), and an officer's board with PzGren waffenfarbe representing his promotion. It boggles the mind.
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Halle
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Re: M36 TUNIC HELP PLEASE?

Post by Halle »

Is it worth pointing out that different manufacturers produced the supposedly generic waffenfarben for shoulder boards and litzen etc ? Therefore different shades existed , often on the same tunic , of colours that were supposed to be the same . Look at some of the original Gebirgsjaeger tunics . So Steve has to make his mind up , should he go down the coloured not generic route, if he can get a shade as close as possible to that prescribed by regulations . It seems this debate has underlined one that finished quite recently :lol:
Jäger Stefan Halle 3./I./Geb.Jag.Reg.100
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