aged gear.

Swap information and ask any questions about an impression.
Peiper

Re: aged gear.

Post by Peiper »

Halle wrote:The longer you spend in a combat environment , the more stressed your equipment ( and you ) become ? Any time out of the line , and replacement items would be issued ? At the end of a particular period on the front line , when the unit is pulled out to rest / refit , as much as is possible is swapped and / or repaired . I'm reading about 6th SS Nord , they would have looked very different during Nordwind than they did up in the arctic circle after receiving extensive issues of kit and weapons . So surely any 'look ' as far as reenactment is concerned is possible ?
Hi Halle, i agree mate, any look is possible IF you are portraying that paricular period/place but in my
previous post i was referring to some comments made earlier about plundering the dead etc, these
sort of things only happened in very severe conditions where no replacement equipment could be
issued in my humble opinion, for example Stalingrad.
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Re: aged gear.

Post by GraemeMac »

DER SOLDATEN wrote:
Peter Bauer wrote:Considering that I was ordered by my leutnant to repair some of my issue items in the army - this being in the year 2008 - I would imagine they certainly repaired some items themselves as well.
Not trying to offend. But where you ever in combat against a larger force? Also where you losing?
Lets all try and have a real debate.

Try arguing with my better half....
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erikbozwo2 wrote: Pyotr, please don't take any advice from peiper.
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Re: aged gear.

Post by Halle »

I would agree with you on that Peiper .
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gurowski
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Re: aged gear.

Post by gurowski »

Peiper wrote:i was referring to some comments made earlier about plundering the dead etc, these
sort of things only happened in very severe conditions where no replacement equipment could be
issued in my humble opinion, for example Stalingrad.
Normandy SS vets have told us that they were told to collect a camo smock from the pile at the aid station. The vet telling us had one covered in blood and bulletholes
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Re: aged gear.

Post by Botty »

Isn't it mentioned in 'forgotten soldier' the upset caused when the order was given forbidding the burial of the dead wrapped in their Zeltbahn as these were to be removed for re-use?

In my opinion the best way to age things is to use them. Yes you wont look like you have been in the field for years but you will look authentic. The impression from extensive reading is that most soldiers did not either. Average 'lifespan' at the front does not appear to be that long.

Things were replaced as they wore out, otherwise why was there a need to bring out new style tunics throughout the war? Things were repaired in the field when needed. Do likewise in your re-enacting and you will look fine.
Be a pessimist and never be disappointed.
Peiper

Re: aged gear.

Post by Peiper »

gurowski wrote:
Peiper wrote:i was referring to some comments made earlier about plundering the dead etc, these
sort of things only happened in very severe conditions where no replacement equipment could be
issued in my humble opinion, for example Stalingrad.
Normandy SS vets have told us that they were told to collect a camo smock from the pile at the aid station. The vet telling us had one covered in blood and bulletholes
Fair comment Gurowski, as you say you had it from "the horses mouth" so to speak,
saying that though it appears these items that were re-issued were done "officially" rather
than somebody helping themselves if they needed to replace a breadbag or waterbottle,
as far as i know going from things ive read?, excuse my ignorance if the info is wrong !!

I read in one semi/autobiography that one soldier swapped boots with a fallen kamerad
when he thought no one was looking but was advised by his NCO to put his own worn out
boots on the dead man so wouldn't be charged with "corpse looting" by his senior Officer :?:,
thought i would share that observation.

Regards Pipes
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Re: aged gear.

Post by Franz repper »

DER SOLDATEN wrote:
Peter Bauer wrote:Considering that I was ordered by my leutnant to repair some of my issue items in the army - this being in the year 2008 - I would imagine they certainly repaired some items themselves as well.
Not trying to offend. But where you ever in combat against a larger force? Also where you losing?
Lets all try and have a real debate.
That is a bit uncalled for Peter has said during his military service he repaired items may I ask have you done military service ? The salvation Army dont count by the way . :mrgreen:

With the German army in WWII and many like the equipment you were Issued note Issued not Given remained the property of the Government and you was expected to maintain it if you did not you would have a quick visit to your CO who would bill you for the Loss of bad order of the equipment .
In combat there is a different set of rules equipment can be written off if the solder lost it in battle or it was damaged in battle .

A soldier would maintain uniform and equipment as his life depends on it if he could not get a replacement then he might just have to get it from other means but steeling off the dead was not really a done thing OK if the company stores take from the dead repair it and reissue the item .

And yes I was in combat and yes I have been under fire and yes they was more of them than us
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Re: aged gear.

Post by Mikkel »

This is not a reply to the post above, but a general reply to the misconception that the soldiers didn't repair their kit themselves.
I remember reading in a veterans memoirs that he stood in line waiting to be interrogated by the FG because of a large mass-rout caused by Russians aggressively breaking through their lines. He stands in line a short distance from a Leutnant who the FG reprimand for losing his binoculars and a field telephone. The items were not his, but the property of the German government and he failed to live up to his responsibilities.
"Ordnung muss sein" is not a phrase dreamed up at random. It's part of the German cultural conscience (or at least was pre- 1945). Especially Das Heer was (in)famous for it's strict discipline and focus on keeping things in order. The strict training and disciplining ddidn't just go away because you were in combat. As an comparison, look at pictures of how soldiers standing, relaxing, with their guns. The majority keep their hand on the rifle as if it were on the parade grounds. Because they have been drilled hard, they do those things as by instinct.
A good commander is one who keeps his soldiers occupied, he demands that they do certain things between the lull of fighting. They must repair their uniforms, equipment, clean their guns, shave, work on their entrenchment, etc. etc.
Take a look at period photos. Why do you think. That even in but the most desperate of situations, the soldiers are clean shaved?
A good soldier knows that he is dependent on his weapon and his equipment, and he takes good care of both. He repairs it when it's broken, he does running maintenance, to make sure it doesn't break when he depends on it the most.
Even in modern day militaries, when some of your kit is broken, but you can easily fix it yourself, you are being told to fix it. A soldier got his repair kit for exactly that purpose. To do smaller repairs himself and not put unnecessary strain on the supply system. And the German WW2 supply system was strained like no other.
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Re: aged gear.

Post by Franz repper »

Thank you Mikkel :mrgreen:
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Hauser
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Re: aged gear.

Post by Hauser »

The Kit you use and wear is not yours, its issued to you,

If your fallen comrade, had kit you require to keep you alive, you would use it ! Its not robbing the dead the kit was never theirs in the first place......also you would have all ready discussed it with your mates in slack moments,while repairing what you could, that if anything happens to me take what you need to survive, tell my family Blah Blah Blah etc.

Robbing pockets (Pocket contents are theirs) and taking your Governments kit back are light years away from each other. I see no difference from a pair of your Governments boots or a gun, Nether of them are yours.

And if i was in Stalingrad and needed a better pair of boots to survive, i would take them off a dead comrades feet in a heart beat no problem. Its all very well sitting at a keyboard in a warm centrally heated house being judge mental on guys freezing to death in Stalingrad ? and loosing limbs to frost bite.

I bet that if you did a pole i would say that 9 out of 10 ex vets would say...... leave the money and personnel effects, but take the kit if you need it !

So if your playing dead at the Victory show and feel a tug on your boots ??????? its probably me ! :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Gliderinf
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Re: aged gear.

Post by Gliderinf »

"So if your playing dead at the Victory show and feel a tug on your boots ??????? its probably me ! "

:lol:
Gliderinf / Luftlande
Peiper

Re: aged gear.

Post by Peiper »

Hauser wrote:The Kit you use and wear is not yours, its issued to you,

If your fallen comrade, had kit you require to keep you alive, you would use it ! Its not robbing the dead the kit was never theirs in the first place......also you would have all ready discussed it with your mates in slack moments,while repairing what you could, that if anything happens to me take what you need to survive, tell my family Blah Blah Blah etc.

Robbing pockets (Pocket contents are theirs) and taking your Governments kit back are light years away from each other. I see no difference from a pair of your Governments boots or a gun, Nether of them are yours.

And if i was in Stalingrad and needed a better pair of boots to survive, i would take them off a dead comrades feet in a heart beat no problem. Its all very well sitting at a keyboard in a warm centrally heated house being judge mental on guys freezing to death in Stalingrad ? and loosing limbs to frost bite.
Hi Hauser, sounds logical but helping yourself to stuff from the dead still wasnt done, as mentioned
above collection points were set up where kit/equipment were stripped from the dead before being
buried and the stuff was re-issued officially

But as i said previously in extreme areas such as Stalingrad/Kurland etc where no equipment was
available because no supplies could reach its troops or being surrounded etc then yes it was done then,
the Officers/NCO's turned a blind eye to it, but needless to say in all Armies you had your "rotten apples"
who purposely robbed the dead but these were in a minority in my humble opinion!!!!!

Regards Peiper
Hoffman Grink

Re: aged gear.

Post by Hoffman Grink »

GOD! ENOUGH!
Consider this (and I wrote the same litany some years ago and it was the same then as it is now)
The war lasted from 1939 - 1945 - Lets call it six years. So a piece of new kit could only have six years wear at the most.
Most kit was issued to a soldier - He did not own it - it belonged to the state and he was required to surrender it when demanded.
Kit had a finite life and below a certain standard it was trashed or recycled.

All this bollocks you are talking is irrelevant - The OP asked about AGED kit - The way to age kit is as follows.
You re-enact at weekends normally. SO you brand new kit is just that on your first event. You are a beginner and you should look like you have just come from a replacement battalion. If you're a seasoned re-enactor then you have had a piece of kit re-issued.
Lets say you do 10 events a year - that's 20 days wear. Throw in the odd tactical and a three day weekend - let's say you wear your kit 30 days a year - that's a month.

So your kit - if you don't wash it and hang it up and treat it like precious metal should accumulate a months wear. If you want to help it - shave your wool tunic on the wear points. And fronts of trousers.

Stop stressing over even more Hollywoodisms....... If your breadbag fucks up =- BUY A NEW ONE - because you would have been issued one. The Germans were never a rag tag army - They became shoddy but they had militaristic pride and discipline - Sewn up tunics and repaired leatherwork would have been TEMPORARY. Do NOT devalue the impression you are doing by engaging in this shit.

Keep you kit in the best order you can - If it breaks - by all means repair it that day in the field - but when you get home get another one ordered..... As if you had handed in the old one and been issued a new one.

Stop pissing about people - get real - get back to the proper values and represent real soldiers not CoD sprites.
Konzert-Meister

Re: aged gear.

Post by Konzert-Meister »

Case closed! :roll: Wont hold me breath!
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Re: aged gear.

Post by Gebirgsziege »

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Tchüss,
David :P
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