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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:50 am 
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Hello all.
just been looking thro many pictures of the 12th division in books i have.
just a little question.
does anyone have any references or pictures of the 12thHJ wearing reversible parkas?
thanks

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:22 pm 
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There is not a lot of photos to prove this as the only time they served in the east was was in Hungary 1945 and this uniform was issued as a uniform and worn with the trousers and only in the east as a rule (im sure there are photos of them in use in the west but it was very rare) as in the ardenness it was mostly smocks with field greys dot suits over field greys and great coats or kharkov parkas and a few italian parkas

but im sure you will ignore these facts and just wear a parka as they were made for "die waffen ss" on the rule that they would have kept it as warm kit? well in any army you are issued stuff for certain areas ie east or west or afrika and you would have to have a buckshee set or be VERY lucky not to have to hand it back in or be charged for it when youre time there was finished

you will see pictures of allies in the west wearing parkas but im sure you will find these are from liberated factories and not booty taken from prisoners

so in short "NO"

cheers


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:54 pm 
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Not true Kat,

reversible suits were issued in the west as well. The weather turned out to be unsuitable though, too wet and not cold enough. Most of these suits were dumped beside the road because they were impractical. These suits had been developed for cold winters and dry snow, not semi-cold wet environments where a wool mantel is much more practical.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:38 am 
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Thanks for both replies.
I've read that the weather was extremely bad at this stage of the War and that's what led me to my question. I've seen pictures of HJ in greatcoats etc. Just wondered if they ever did wear a reversible.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:19 am 
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Just checked my copy of kreigsgeschichte der 12.SS-panzerdivision Hitlerjugend II by Hubert Meyer (Munin Verlag Gmbh 1982) and theres a full page photo on page 689 of a bloke with a reversible parka


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:00 am 
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Hi SSnez

Here's a pic from - Herbert Walther The 12th SS Panzer Division -HJ-


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:31 am 
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Thankyou mark
It's good to read a topic like this and see the different opinions, wether correct or incorrect from people on what they would have worn at this time of the war and what clothing was issued to the divisions in the east and west.
If anyone else has any more evidence on this and tell me more about it I would be very grateful. Thanks

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:51 am 
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ssparatrooper wrote:
There is not a lot of photos to prove this as the only time they served in the east was was in Hungary 1945 and this uniform was issued as a uniform and worn with the trousers and only in the east as a rule (im sure there are photos of them in use in the west but it was very rare) as in the ardenness it was mostly smocks with field greys dot suits over field greys and great coats or kharkov parkas and a few italian parkas

but im sure you will ignore these facts and just wear a parka as they were made for "die waffen ss" on the rule that they would have kept it as warm kit? well in any army you are issued stuff for certain areas ie east or west or afrika and you would have to have a buckshee set or be VERY lucky not to have to hand it back in or be charged for it when youre time there was finished

you will see pictures of allies in the west wearing parkas but im sure you will find these are from liberated factories and not booty taken from prisoners

so in short "NO"

cheers


Ian's post should be the end of the debate - but no - reenactors don't like being told what they don't want to hear! Of course you can trawl through hundreds of period photpgraphs and find a couple that support your case but in the end what does that achieve - an impression that represents the exception rather than the rule and threfore is not an acurate reflection of the reality.

For the last time - reenactors should aim to portray a 'COMMON AND TYPICAL' impression.

But what do I know and why should anybody care what I think!

Adieu


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:53 am 
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Nez in the end it don't matter what you get ,(someone will tell you it's wrong) just be sure of one thing ..........there's room in the pockets for a pot noodle and a mars bar or two :wink: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:37 pm 
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why should it be the end of the debate 'grenmartens'? isnt this forum about discussing issues and hearing and sharing peoples thoughts and knowledge?
clearly 'Sheikh Al Stranghi' has shared his knowledge that what 'ssparatrooper' wrote may be slightly incorrect.
all im asking is for info on if the 12th would have worn a reversibe parka.
and you say reenactors should aim to portray a common and typical impression, then why do the likes of SOF etc sell these kind of items?

haha thanks 'meyer' ill slip an extra one in for you but shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dont tell anyone :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:11 pm 
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just got my hands on the 12th SS vol.2 by hubert mayer and on page370 theres a picture and it looks like the bloke stood on tank is wearing a reversible (camo side round not white side) HUNGARY,MARCH 1945 SS ANTI TANK BATALLION 12 retreating from Lake Balaton.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:34 pm 
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You mean this one SSnez ?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:38 pm 
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Yep thats the one. am i correct in thinking it is a parka he's wearing? 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:06 pm 
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i have that herbert walter book and in that picture the people in the halftrack have splinter parkas on so i would say they are not 12ss


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:10 pm 
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and unless im mistaken Hungary is in the east


Last edited by ssparatrooper on Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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