reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
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Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
and to finish unless your doing an event for 1945 Hungary (not too many of them in england) the answer is still NO
Sheikh maybe the winter suits were from Hikishop eh!
thats why they were shit LOL
Sheikh maybe the winter suits were from Hikishop eh!
thats why they were shit LOL
Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
I was never doubting you 'ssparatrooper' that Hungary is in the east.
But wouldn't it be nice if like myself who portrays the 12thSS to dress accordingly throughout the year when doing re-enactments. Starting off with Normandy uniform and ending the season in warmer clothing that they would have worn in Hungary.
But wouldn't it be nice if like myself who portrays the 12thSS to dress accordingly throughout the year when doing re-enactments. Starting off with Normandy uniform and ending the season in warmer clothing that they would have worn in Hungary.
"When I was bound apprentice in famous Lincolnshire"
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Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
A similar discussion is on WAF,"what parka's were worn by the SS in the Ardennes",first two replies were "all models",the next two were "none,only the Heer were issued parka's".The difficult thing is to pin down what was used by a specific unit like the HJ,some photo captions can be wrong or just state "waffen SS troops"with no identification of which unit.The statement that winter clothing issued in the west was dumped by the roadside,by whom? the Heer,the Waffen SS,when and where?.By 1945 HJ were part of 6th panzer army,in the book 'Into the Abyss,the last years of the Waffen SS 1943-45',photos(in Hungary) show a mixture of reversible parkas,2nd model rabbit fur lined field grey parkas,photos are captioned for LAH and Das Reich only,HJ may or may not have issued some thing similar,this late in the war with shortages not every man would get the 'regulation issue item'.John
"I require able bodied men,with good horse and gun.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.
Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
Cheers for that post briggy.
could you also say that at this point of the war the Germans were getting a hammering and maybe the last thing on their mind was what to wear and also to take piccys? Which will always lead to discussions like this to have uncertain answers?
could you also say that at this point of the war the Germans were getting a hammering and maybe the last thing on their mind was what to wear and also to take piccys? Which will always lead to discussions like this to have uncertain answers?
"When I was bound apprentice in famous Lincolnshire"
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Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
yes that is very true,one of the LAH veterans I know said that when in Russia they looked like 'gypsies'and wore/scrounged any warm clothing they could find.JohnSSnez wrote:Cheers for that post briggy.
could you also say that at this point of the war the Germans were getting a hammering and maybe the last thing on their mind was what to wear and also to take piccys?
As for adressing me as 'briggy' tell mm1977 from me you are to run around the barrack square six times for insubbordination.
"I require able bodied men,with good horse and gun.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.
Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
Haha I came across a piccy of some topless female Hungarian gypsies last nite. They probably stole their clothes
oops sorry John I appologise. But it's a common known fact that marky will Enjoy chasing me around the barrack square
oops sorry John I appologise. But it's a common known fact that marky will Enjoy chasing me around the barrack square
"When I was bound apprentice in famous Lincolnshire"
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Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
Sureley you would dress to the scenario of the event you were attending?
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Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
Looking at the Book Battle of the Bulge then and now Great coats seem to be the most common issue item Now looking at SS Order Ibid ., Nr.19 1 October 1943 ,Ziff 370 Clothing Economy of the Waffen SS it has 4 parts part D for additional winter clothing for units on the eastern front in-cluding Lapland and northern Norway
Using this information it would suggest that the parkas are not for western front I will look into it more if Briggy and Kitty dont mind
Edit spelling
Using this information it would suggest that the parkas are not for western front I will look into it more if Briggy and Kitty dont mind
Edit spelling
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Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
No we don't mind,so long as it does'nt take you away from the swimming pool,sorry that was your old job! (Kit Kat made me say it!)
"I require able bodied men,with good horse and gun.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.
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Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
Briggy as its you and Kitty thats OK
Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
Yes of corse I'd dress accordingly. As I will dress accordingly this weekend coming (spanby event) how the 12th would have done at this period in the war.ssparatrooper wrote:Sureley you would dress to the scenario of the event you were attending?
Your info and research will be much appreciated franz thank you
"When I was bound apprentice in famous Lincolnshire"
Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
A re-enactment group should, to assist its members, have a list of kit which is required for the unit(s) portrayed. Then in preparation for an event, the group leader or person responsible for events ought to prepare a warning order.
This warning order would use the kit list to inform the members what the dress code/issue will be for said event.
Doing this means members can pack the appropriate items and be sure of looking like a military unit instead of a bunch of gypsies....... It also prevents the ubergucciblingsoldat from standing out like a cobbler's thumb thus cheapening the group's presentation. (In theory at least)
Research is best done at unit level and when agreed within a group, disseminated to all so that they may spend their hard earned on relevant items......
The questions posed are valid...... Equally the answers have merit - But sometimes questions are asked and if answers are not forthcoming that match the poser's expectations; no amount of fact or validation will suffice.
12 SS Pz Div was as we all probably know - formed in June 43.
Its areas of operations consisted of the following
Belgium (June 1943 - Mar 1944)
France (Mar 1944 - Sep 1944)
Belgium & Western Germany (Sep 1944 - Dec 1944)
Ardennes (Dec 1944 - Jan 1945)
Western Germany (Jan 1945 - Feb 1945)
Hungary & Austria (Feb 1945 - May 1945)
From this we can safely say that winter clothing if issued was likely to have been from Belgium onwards (Sep 44 - Feb 45) and would have been collected in during the Spring of 45 if possible......
We know they wore dot suits, Italian Camo including coveralls, Leather clothing and regular SS issue camo. We know that Italian fur lined Parkas exist. Maybe some serious research such as examining Records and even looking online for things such as "12SS Panzerdivision Winterbekleidung" could produce results?
If in doubt - and you want to keep warm during the winter - Get a Mantel........ Failing that - get a dot suit that is large enough to go over your feldgrau........ it's what they did. Pair that up with a Roll neck sweater under the tunic and some longjohns (thermals will work), a Toque and some earwarmers........ Knitted gloves and a scarf will complete the issue look and keep you warm.
This warning order would use the kit list to inform the members what the dress code/issue will be for said event.
Doing this means members can pack the appropriate items and be sure of looking like a military unit instead of a bunch of gypsies....... It also prevents the ubergucciblingsoldat from standing out like a cobbler's thumb thus cheapening the group's presentation. (In theory at least)
Research is best done at unit level and when agreed within a group, disseminated to all so that they may spend their hard earned on relevant items......
The questions posed are valid...... Equally the answers have merit - But sometimes questions are asked and if answers are not forthcoming that match the poser's expectations; no amount of fact or validation will suffice.
12 SS Pz Div was as we all probably know - formed in June 43.
Its areas of operations consisted of the following
Belgium (June 1943 - Mar 1944)
France (Mar 1944 - Sep 1944)
Belgium & Western Germany (Sep 1944 - Dec 1944)
Ardennes (Dec 1944 - Jan 1945)
Western Germany (Jan 1945 - Feb 1945)
Hungary & Austria (Feb 1945 - May 1945)
From this we can safely say that winter clothing if issued was likely to have been from Belgium onwards (Sep 44 - Feb 45) and would have been collected in during the Spring of 45 if possible......
We know they wore dot suits, Italian Camo including coveralls, Leather clothing and regular SS issue camo. We know that Italian fur lined Parkas exist. Maybe some serious research such as examining Records and even looking online for things such as "12SS Panzerdivision Winterbekleidung" could produce results?
If in doubt - and you want to keep warm during the winter - Get a Mantel........ Failing that - get a dot suit that is large enough to go over your feldgrau........ it's what they did. Pair that up with a Roll neck sweater under the tunic and some longjohns (thermals will work), a Toque and some earwarmers........ Knitted gloves and a scarf will complete the issue look and keep you warm.
Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
Thankyou Hoffman. A nicely put together peice. I think I've been miss understood at some point. Which can happen when not talking in person
Yes I have all the latter kit you listed to see me thro the spanby weekend.
Cheers
Yes I have all the latter kit you listed to see me thro the spanby weekend.
Cheers
"When I was bound apprentice in famous Lincolnshire"
Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
Looking at the Wacht Am Rhein photos of HJ Grenadieren and especially the captured ones - That "overstuffed look" of Dots over feldgrau with a sweater poking out of the neck seems to indicate what they were "issued" with to keep warm...... Team that up with a large greatcoat and you will have a warm combo (I know I've done similar) but will find difficulty moving!!!!!! Keeping it "real"!
Re: reversible parkas for the 12thSSHJ ??
oh yes ,love mine (mink lined)and i don't care if you call me a tart paul .We know that Italian fur lined Parkas exist.
kitty and briggy dam i nearly chocked on a brew when i read that one,going to have to clean the coffee out the key board again