Children and re-enactment?
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Re: Children and re-enactment?
Or that other famous song by Patrick Hernandex - (lebens)Born to be alive.
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Re: Children and re-enactment?
There is a guy in Stroud who can sort you out some good stuff just tell him I sent youCruiser wrote:Thats a new one, rhubarb roots, must look into that, Chees Hoff
Re: Children and re-enactment?
Cheers Franz, but having been to Stroud, I'm sure, no I'm certain that there's more than just the one. LOL
I am the bane of pointy stick forums, thrice banned for honesty, hater of internet re enactors ( you know, the ones that know everything but never do an event).
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Re: Children and re-enactment?
Maybe my initial post wasn't clear - I'm not asking for anyone's permission or approval. It's simply a minor personal dilemma that is maybe worthy of some forum discussion. The hackneyed old line that "If you dress up as a Nartsee you must be up a Nartsee" isn't something I expected from this corner TBH.Gott Mit Uns wrote: Its ok to dress kids up as political fascist Second World War pawns because - hey - at least they arent going round wearing hoodies,
EVERYTHING associated with the Third Reich has the thread of National Socialism going through it. We all have our own ideas where that line is drawn. If you're uncomfortable with something then don't do it. Simples.
The biggest beef with HJ and RAD impressions - let's not forget that service in both was mandatory for all young men - seems to be that the uniform includes a swastika armband.
Swastikas on arms are bad.
Unless it's a small one being held by an SS eagle, then it's OK.
Big swastikas like the ones on battle flags are also OK.
30 foot long swastikas draped on buildings are sort of OK.
It's just the medium sized ones that are definitely bad.
Yes I can. I've yet to find anything on racial purity or similar claptrap in a HJ or BDM manual or other period literature aimed at kids. Maybe there is some but it's certainly not very common. Political and racist indoctrination seems to have come from the personal views of individual group leaders - or schoolteachers - or parents.Gott Mit Uns wrote:you cant argue that the BDM (the League of German Girls) wasn't a sadistically political tool - just like the Hitler Youth
Hopefully to a more accurate and varied portrayal of TR history instead of ever-more portrayals of tough guys in trenches.Gott Mit Uns wrote: people start doing this HJ/BDM/SS Helferin lark - where does is it all end?
Re: Children and re-enactment?
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Not entirely true, many books were published by the state for schools etc to educate the young in political and racial indoctrination. Indeed there were even childrens board games putting the Jews accross in a bad light, visit the party rally grounds in Nuremburg and you can see examples of those items. My friends Mother was at school in Essen in the Third Reich era, and she can remember books telling her about how the Jews were to be viewed as second class people etc.
The HJ was to educate children in National Socialism and to prepare those children for a tough life in the armed services, and for eventual war. It was nothing more than a political tool.
"Yes I can. I've yet to find anything on racial purity or similar claptrap in a HJ or BDM manual or other period literature aimed at kids. Maybe there is some but it's certainly not very common. Political and racist indoctrination seems to have come from the personal views of individual group leaders - or schoolteachers - or parents"Gott Mit Uns wrote:you cant argue that the BDM (the League of German Girls) wasn't a sadistically political tool - just like the Hitler Youth
Not entirely true, many books were published by the state for schools etc to educate the young in political and racial indoctrination. Indeed there were even childrens board games putting the Jews accross in a bad light, visit the party rally grounds in Nuremburg and you can see examples of those items. My friends Mother was at school in Essen in the Third Reich era, and she can remember books telling her about how the Jews were to be viewed as second class people etc.
The HJ was to educate children in National Socialism and to prepare those children for a tough life in the armed services, and for eventual war. It was nothing more than a political tool.
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Re: Children and re-enactment?
I think there is alot of naivety in some peoples attitudes towards dressing their kids up as HJ/BDM etc. They cant seem to look beyond the "dressing up"/promenading factor and comprehend the de-facto implications.
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Re: Children and re-enactment?
Do you have any links or titles? I'd like to read them.barryG wrote:: many books were published by the state for schools etc to educate the young in political and racial indoctrination.
As you correctly point out, the HJ and BDM were primarily about giving kids a grounding in what the TR expected from them in later life - red blooded men for the boys and dutiful wives for the girls. This took the form of belonging to an organisation, respect for authority, active outdoor lifestyles, goal setting, praise for achievement, etc. etc.
Now maybe none of that is particularly right-on in the 21st C but I don't think those values are anything to be ashamed about. Induction into the BDM certainly didn't start with - Lesson 1: How To Spot a Jew. As far as I can tell the propaganda on racial stereotyping was largely left to other departments or to peers and family.
Re: Children and re-enactment?
Hmmmmm, can see where this is heading. but I dont know why it came up twice, itchy posting finger?
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I am the bane of pointy stick forums, thrice banned for honesty, hater of internet re enactors ( you know, the ones that know everything but never do an event).
Re: Children and re-enactment?
I think you should to be honest - It gives some people an opportunity to feel worthy and dare I say it - superior.......BedsnHerts wrote: Maybe my initial post wasn't clear - I'm not asking for anyone's permission or approval.
Mind.......... then again - Don't - JUST DO IT!!!!!!! they're your kids, it's your hobby and your reasons for doing it.
Your point on the swastika (can we call it a hakenkreuz please? A swastika is something entirely different according to hippies) is rather good though......... Draping a mahoosive one over your tent/tank/bunkbed is seen as "cool" and "Warry" whilst wearing one as an accoutrement to a historically accurate uniform is frowned upon massively.
I'm waiting for the whole Allgemeine/SD/SA argument to open up again..........
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Re: Children and re-enactment?
Yeah man, like the grandmaster says - just do it. Way to rebel against society etc - after all its YOUR hobby and nothing you do will affect it or anyone else. Ride on bro...
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Re: Children and re-enactment?
Thanks. I will
After a LOT of research I'm having a Kinderschar uniform made up. My mum remembers pestering my Oma to join a KS group because she thought she'd be spending the evening putting up tents and singing round campfires like her brother in the HJ. When she discovered that all they did was sit indoors making collages with paper and glue she lost interest.
BTW the collage was a Hakenkreuz but it wasn't a medium sized one, so that's OK for kids.
After a LOT of research I'm having a Kinderschar uniform made up. My mum remembers pestering my Oma to join a KS group because she thought she'd be spending the evening putting up tents and singing round campfires like her brother in the HJ. When she discovered that all they did was sit indoors making collages with paper and glue she lost interest.
BTW the collage was a Hakenkreuz but it wasn't a medium sized one, so that's OK for kids.
- valkyrie895
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Re: Children and re-enactment?
Gents,
I hate to revive an old dead topic, but I felt I had to weigh in on this one
My opinion on the matter is as such:
Children are welcome in my mind, it's great that they are showing interest in the hobby, but it is important that they are:
1. Portraying an Age-Appropriate impression that is accurate.
2. Not armed with any weapon (toy or otherwise)
3. They are supervised by their parent at all times.
At a recent event, I was shocked at the number of chidren running around willy nilly with plastic guns going BANG-BANG! at each other, dressed as Hitler Jugend and the like.
here are some pics showing why I think it's overall a bad idea:
6-7year old boy with toy gun:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
A gaggle of Hitlers Favorite Rapscallions:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
a 13-14 year old girl dressed as a US tanker:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
This one speaks for itself:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
Now just to show i'm not COMPLETELY biased, Here are some examples of children and reenacting being tastefully combined:
I think the "War Orphan civilian impression is good:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
In conclusion, I think that overall, discretion is the better part of valor, and you should let your kids come out and play when they are old enough to make a cognitive decision as to what they want to represent.
Over and out,
Chris.
I hate to revive an old dead topic, but I felt I had to weigh in on this one
My opinion on the matter is as such:
Children are welcome in my mind, it's great that they are showing interest in the hobby, but it is important that they are:
1. Portraying an Age-Appropriate impression that is accurate.
2. Not armed with any weapon (toy or otherwise)
3. They are supervised by their parent at all times.
At a recent event, I was shocked at the number of chidren running around willy nilly with plastic guns going BANG-BANG! at each other, dressed as Hitler Jugend and the like.
here are some pics showing why I think it's overall a bad idea:
6-7year old boy with toy gun:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
A gaggle of Hitlers Favorite Rapscallions:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
a 13-14 year old girl dressed as a US tanker:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
This one speaks for itself:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
Now just to show i'm not COMPLETELY biased, Here are some examples of children and reenacting being tastefully combined:
I think the "War Orphan civilian impression is good:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
In conclusion, I think that overall, discretion is the better part of valor, and you should let your kids come out and play when they are old enough to make a cognitive decision as to what they want to represent.
Over and out,
Chris.
Obergefreiter Bodo Fehrmann
II./984. Grenadier Regiment, 275. Infanterie Division
"Will mir die Hand noch reichen,
Derweil ich eben lad'.
Kann dir die Hand nicht geben,
Bleib du im ew'gen Leben
Mein guter Kamerad!"
II./984. Grenadier Regiment, 275. Infanterie Division
"Will mir die Hand noch reichen,
Derweil ich eben lad'.
Kann dir die Hand nicht geben,
Bleib du im ew'gen Leben
Mein guter Kamerad!"