which way to wear the e-tool?

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THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER.
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which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER. »

which way does the e-tool go into the carrier?, handle poking away from the leg? or towards the leg, away from the leg seems more comfy, towards the leg is an annoyance?
thanks in advance! :D
THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER.
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Peiper

Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by Peiper »

THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER. wrote:which way does the e-tool go into the carrier?, handle poking away from the leg? or towards the leg, away from the leg seems more comfy, towards the leg is an annoyance?
thanks in advance! :D
Hi kamerad :D
If you mean the rigid e-tool then i personally wear it with the curveture of the spade head against my side
this way its seems to sit better and not flap about as much lol, if you mean the folding e tool then as far
as i know it is worn with the folded handle face upwards, hope this has been of some use??
Regards, Pipes
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Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER. »

Gidday pipe's, yes kamerad, i mean the straight handled shovel, so you mean that the handle is slightly poking away from the leg? is that correct?
cheers! :mrgreen:

do you mean, opposite to this photo? the bottom of the shovel head is seen in this photo,which would mean that the handle would slightly dig into your leg.
do you know what i mean ?
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THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER.
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Peiper

Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by Peiper »

Personally i wear mine with the wooden handle slightly pointing towards the leg,
that way the spade head itself lies plush with the body, the other way i find awkward
due to the e-tool head itself catching on things (especially arms when you move about lol)
but as i say its down to personal preferance whichever you find comfortable, except of
course it must be worn on the left hand side (along with the bayonet strapped to it)

Regards, Pipes :mrgreen:
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THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER.
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Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER. »

Thanks pipes :D yeah your'e right, i found its nice and snug if your belt is raised to the right position, hugs the body . thanks for your advice kamerad. :mrgreen:
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Peiper

Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by Peiper »

THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER. wrote:Thanks pipes :D yeah your'e right, i found its nice and snug if your belt is raised to the right position, hugs the body . thanks for your advice kamerad. :mrgreen:
Non probleme mon ami lol :D
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Peter Bauer
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Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by Peter Bauer »

I wear it the other way, with handle poking away from me. Having it "flush" with my body just doesn't seem to work for me, the handle somehow always ends up in my boot or something similar. When it's poking away, it usually does not stop me from moving around, unlike it does the other way.

But I've seen this discussed earlier too, then it was said the official way is to have the handle "inwards", right? But I dunno, seen soldiers do it both ways.
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Jaws
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Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by Jaws »

Shove it into the front of your belt at a angle.

Then you can kneel to shoot :wink:

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paulmfjr2
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Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by paulmfjr2 »

Don't forget that your bayonet is supposed to sit in the middle of your e-tool with the cross over buckle strap securing the scabbard to the e-tool, this can only be done with the e-tool facing into the body.
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Peter Bauer
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Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by Peter Bauer »

Lies, can be done both ways.
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Hoffman Grink

Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by Hoffman Grink »

(yawns)
There's regulations and there's field use. (but you knew that already)
If you are presenting a typical picture of a grenadier or are required for a full kit parade. Wear it concave side facing body with shaft sloped inwards.
If you are pretending to be rufty tufty ubercombat soldat, wear it how you want and how it's most comfortable.

If you leave it off say it's in the baggage train.

Best tucked in belt as seen in hundreds of photos.

Don't forget to use it now and again.
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dagda
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Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by dagda »

Peter Bauer wrote:Lies, can be done both ways.
I dont think so. Do you want to follow regulations, as the German Army do it or make it up to suit yourself? But then what do I know! :shock:

Its like, do you want to trawl the internet for pics and spend hours on Wehrmacht awards, or, invest in some well researched books?



Entrenching tool on the front, yes its in period pics, but you can easily cut yourself badly, I know I did at a private battle.
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Peter Bauer
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Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by Peter Bauer »

Alright dagda. I don't really want to get in to this argument about regulations and field use of equipment. You can argue I'm wrong if you want, but I've seen this thing debated too many times over the internet, so I'm not really all that excited about doing it again. I'm just going to state how I see this matter.
dagda wrote:I dont think so.
In my response (Lies, can be done both ways) I was referring to this:
paulmfjr2 wrote:Don't forget that your bayonet is supposed to sit in the middle of your e-tool with the cross over buckle strap securing the scabbard to the e-tool, this can only be done with the e-tool facing into the body.
You can do it both ways. Atleast I can, so I could imagine other people being able to do it too.

When it comes to the rest of what you said, let me quickly argue my point of view.
dagda wrote:Do you want to follow regulations, as the German Army do it or make it up to suit yourself?
There's absolutely no need to imply, that I would be trying to change history to suit my liking. I've done my research and I am willing to learn new things all the time - in fact, that is why I browse these forums as this is a valuable source for information and you learn something new here almost every day. However, what you said comes pretty close to a personal attack and there really is no need for it here.

Anways, I am going to explain my position here. I did my mandatory service in the conscript army of Finland. This is important, as Finnish army is almost completely based on the German army as everything our little nation learned about warfare basically comes from the German army of First World War and Second World War. First professional soldiers were trained in Germany during World War one, and a lot of tactical knowledge came here when we were allied with the Germans during the second big war. Traditions die hard and it hasn't been until late 90s and early 21st century that NATO-ideas have started to affect the Finnish army. You would be surprised how similar a lot of things in the Finnish army are to those of the old German army.

However, I am not saying I am basing everything I say to those experiences in the army, but use them as a good point-of-view to take a look at the huge German warmachine of the 40's. I will always first look at what they did and then see it in the light of my own service. I know that there are plenty of (ex-)british military veterans here and I do believe they will agree with me at least to some extend about what I am about to say. Here's where the part about regulations step in.

Like Hoffman Grink said, there is regulations and there's field use. Regulations are what you learn first in your basic training. Just like you learn how to fold the bed cover neatly for the night and the regulation places for your issued items in the locker, you learn to wear your uniform the correct way. You've got to remember that out of almost 20 million men serving in the German army, most were just normal lads conscripted in to the service. In order to make them work like an efficient professional army in relatively short time, you need regulations and standard procedures to get them work in a proper manner. You can obviously see this in the early war pictures where the men - with little or no experience of real warfare or combat conditions - straight from the training go about dressed nicely, and look very uniform - like they had been trained to.

Now, just as they would put the shovel under their belt, they could wear the shovel the other way around instead of what was said in the regulations. This is the field use me and Hoffman are referring. When you are in the field and combat for long time, you tend to "customize" your stuff the way it works the best. Of course a lot of things you wear the same way as you were taught to do as you are used to it and they most often make sense (like wearing the ammunition pouches in the front, instead of bread bag). But for example with me the real problem is that if I wear the shovel the handle pointing towards my ass, it quite often ends up in my boot when I am moving about. This is probably because I am relatively short guy (170cm) and the handle is still quite long in the regular field shovel. It makes sense to me to turn it the other way, so that it does't bother me. I know that I would do it, if my life might depend on it at some point.

And you do see this done in the units in the field. Just take a look at the photos - I bet in your books there are photos showing this done too. In some units the officers must have been more strict about the regulations and might have ordered to wear the shovel the way regulations say, but there most likely was some units where the officers didn't really care about regulations, but perhaps thought that the soldiers might perform better when they can do these little choices to help their daily lives.

However, I'm not saying that when you are in training, in barracks or marching from place A to B among civilians, you wouldn't adhere to the regulations. Of course the officers wanted their men to look smart in the eyes of the civilians, own and enemy alike. But in the combat situation there are no authenticity officers or Cuggi fashion advisors telling you how you look. It all depends on the orders, the officers and what you want to do.

You must have seen photos of Eastern front units - and even Western front units - where it's hard to find two men looking alike. Especially in bigger, longer battles, the last thing they would be thinking is regulations. At least, this is what I've learned from what I've read and thought about this thing.

My own experiences also... well, not support, but reflect what I've said above. During the basic training of my service my instructor was very strict about us having our uniform and gear the same way (using same hat, instead of ll 3 variants mixed). If one guy decided to use rubber boots because it was wet, then everyone had to wear them. Just like you had your experience with the shovel.

However, after basic training I was assigned to different platoon and also had 3 different instructors. Their way of thinking about this was completely different. During inspections and when in barracks, the uniform looks was strictly adhered to as it said in the regulations. However, in the field they told us to customize our gear the way we wanted, as long as we had everything with us that was ordered to be with us as in regulations. This did cause our unit look quite mixed when in the field exercises. I still didn't carry my gas mask in my vest though, I had it in my backpack. Instead I used the pouch for all the small things I needed and couldn't carry in my pockets (having a dump pouch, pistol and grenade pistol blocking the use of thigh pockets and the flak vest blocking the pockets of my jacket, I had no choice). It made sense to me at that time, even though it was against regulations.

I am not saying that because I got away with it in 2008, the Germans would have completely ignored the rules back in the 40's. Of course not. The German army was far more professional than what the Finnish Defense Force is these days. But both are still compromised of conscripts, with similar structure and traditions. All I'm trying to say, that sometimes it's alright to look at things outside the regulations and from different point of view. I hope you can read my point of view through and understand what I am trying to say. I'm certainly not saying you are wrong, but we just have a different view on this subject.

I apologize if it's hard to understand, English is not my first language and I am currently living in a country where nobody speaks but very bad English and I am studying in a third foreign language, so it does make it harder for me to express myself.
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THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER.
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Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER. »

Thankyou very much Gentlemen for your advice, thoughts ,insights and experience concerning this matter. As wisdom is found in the council of many, so do i value every word spoken in good
stead. Thanks again. :wink:
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Peiper

Re: which way to wear the e-tool?

Post by Peiper »

Gruss-gott "Unknown Soldier" :D
Here's a close-up pic of mine being worn at an event if it helps???
E-tool (close-up).jpg
E-tool (close-up).jpg (39.39 KiB) Viewed 6041 times
Regards, Pipes
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