Officers In WWII German Living History Situations

[les hearn]

i personaly feel there is a need for more

reasons being the ones out there allready are (to me ) not verry approachable.
how do you aproach one?

or if they are allready out there then they hold a high position in reenacting allready and need to approach us so we can addjust our impresions (for example)salutes to em .

or failing that
can someone introduce me to em

[Shergar]

hi lads and girls

im just thinking out loud here , is there some credit in actually exploring

the possibility off a general command scenerio for battles were we

actually have the likes off the affore mentioned protraying general officer

staff as we have lots off groups operating independantly and together

within events which is excellent .

however if a general command tent was set up it could act as a focal point

for discussing whats happening

where leaders of groups formally deal with each other and iron issues out

act as a rallying point for all german activities bring cohesive strength to

our re-enactment .

we have the likes off rommel out there an excellent character , we have

vetrans out there not able to participate but who can give advice on what

might have happened and we have an opportunity to create stronger

links with one another via this method in a formal setting .

scotts come on board now think off it this can be an additional atttraction

that can be displayed and utilized , it does notmean that the person

having the uniform has power off authority over any off you , but it

means that this can act as a catalyst and a focal point for field activities if

and when needed , and can be in multiple ownship off all the groups .


may be im just talking crap , im sorry if you think so , but this could

develop into something to our advantage .

[Scott]

i think what shegar is saying could work
if it was set up as a reporting area the person in the red collar patches would have no power just oversee stuff (without getting involed) checkingot see if stuff had been issued , what time was issue, how much, etc instead of everyone running around from each group it could be passed on to a set person with the responablity for doing that task, a bit like a office manager, does none of the work but just over sees and collates stuff.
it may make shows/battles run a bit smoother and give the organizers more time to sort out other stuff instead of answering the same question from lots of different people/groups.
i may be treading on toes here but it is just a thought

[Feldjager]

OK, time to break out the Kriegsstärkenachweisungen me thinks.

For those that don't know, Kriegsstärkenachweisungen (also known as KStN) list the manpower allocation for a certain formation from Division down to zug.

Taking a 1941 Stab for an Infantriedivision, for example, we find it has the following make up:

Divisional Commander:
1 Generalleutnant (Divisional commander)
1 EM despatch rider

Leading section:
Ia
1 Oberstleutnant/Major (General Staff Officer)
1 Hauptmann (Ordinance Officer)
1 senior NCO (Clerk)
2 EM (Clerks/despatch riders)
Ic
1 Hauptmann (Abwehr)
1 Leutnant/Oberleutnant (Ordinance Officer)
3 Leutnant/Oberleutnant (Interpreters)
1 senior NCO (Clerk)
1 EM (Clerks/despatch riders)

There were then also the Quartermaster section, Divisional medical staff, Adjutant, Divisional Justicar and Divisional Chaplain. There were also a host of NCOs, EM and junior officers who were essentially despatch riders, drivers and clerks.
In total: 21 Officers, 9 Officals, 34 NCOs and 113 EM. Also used are 29 vehicles, 64 motorcycles (8 with sidecars) abd 20 bicycles.

I have KStN for other formations, however nothing to hand bigger than a division.

Hope this stimulates the old grey cells...

[geoffpara]

I agree with Les' comments on this one.

As for the inclusion of General officers in battles I'm not convinced. Appreciate what you say Scott but a JNCO could be doing a lot of the tasks you outlined. What would the inclusion of a very senior officer add to something that probably would have been commanded by a Hauptman or Major? For someone to undertake the role of C3 at a battle I believe it takes someone who knows what they are doing and a dedicated and competent group to support him. However, the use of a senior officers group could be a scenario planned for by the directing staff as an off-shoot to the main scenario and their participation becomes a table-top exercise amidst a large scale battle. Mind you if you've never worked together before it'll be an uphill struggle and possibly embarassing. Take it from one who's been there and done that from both sides of the fence. Remember what's said about working in new groups... its Formin', Stormin', Normin', Performin' all on the Friday night through to the Sunday midday then the Mournin' as we all take our leave.

Having said that, I would like to see a number of 'senior officers' with their own stand portraying something like the discussions going on following the realisation of D-Day, or Paulus at Stalingrad with a staff element in the dilemma of do I take the promotion to FM and shoot myself, or stay a General... Nah! I'm gonna take the promotion and then surrender

Or a number of senior officers at their field HQ conferring with the KorpsKdr. There are a number of scenarios that could be played with but all dependent on the solo's getting together or a unit willing to particpate.

Geoff

[Muller]

I for one would like to see high ranking officers at battles, if you take swynerton for example there was spencer and underwood with great impressions and i think it added to the flavour.

I think people should get into the fantasy a bit more and maybe we would all enjoy it bit more instead of getting hung up over rank and medals all the time

[Feldjager]

With the rest of our kit, we could possibly adapt to a divisional HQ role. Would mean tweaking a few bits here and there...

[Scott]

i can understand what you are saying geoff to see a GFM at the battle front would not be right they would be back at the HQ sorting stuff out and making sure everything went as smooth as possible so takning part in a battle would not work
at waltham abbey the other week at the end of the battle on the HQ it added something different for the mops to see when i was lead out by a private at gunpoint to offer my surrender with a hauptman from the feldgendarmie. the look on the brit privates face was a scene

[geoffpara]

No, that's good Scott and an example of groups collaborating to achieve their outcome. By groups I include you as a one-man group.


I also like Feldjager's idea.

Geoff

[les hearn]

it may make shows/battles run a bit smoother and give the organizers more time to sort out other stuff instead of answering the same question from lots of different people/groups.
i may be treading on toes here but it is just a thought

scott if you are sugesting other groups at shows contact the "high command"
as a main organisers contact then i must totally disagree
organisers need to have first hand contact at all times
if you mean something else then i appologise

[Hoffman Grink]

Again Les - glory without responsibility.
Look at me stamping passes checking weapons, dishing our orders....

"no power"? Where is the power?????

I answer the same question from five re-enactors in the same number of minutes. Five times a day. I bet you do too. Constantly getting the message over..... and still it doesn't sink in.

I can see the pattern forming Les......

What happened to booking venues, ordering pyro and weapons, writing scenarios, co-ordinating things, writing risk assessments, making sure the insurance is in place.
No - "I'll stand here and play act to look good - on the back of the poor sap who ACTUALLY organised the gig"

GCR - we won the tender, we have organised the battle, booked the gear, ordered the bangs, set up the scenario, worked with the "opposition" on it, taken names, made lists, made passes to stop arseholes leaking shit all over and will on the day build the battle field, set up the bangs, conduct the safety brief and walkthrough, over see the issue of ammo, carefully det the pyro, time the gig, talk to Joe Public and explain what we are doing..... Cos we are a team and we know how to work together - We don't need or want a third party "looking good" and coming in "to help"

I can see where this is going..... and I don't like this any more than I like red collar tabs and big bullion schulterklappen!!!!

Anyone know a guy who gives egg sucking lessons around here?

[abc123]

from "the outside looking in", it would seem a good idea to have a German high command which would be scenario specific (i'm sure that is up in this thread anyway), especially for some late war scenario's.

BUT how its handled is difficult. Maybe how Wayne doe sit is a good example, Grunt who puts the time in and is willing to get down and grubby, and when appropriate goes up the rank structure at a rate of knots?

So Scott could work within his group at ground level (getting to understand the Wermacht ropes and its functions) and this would aid him in his impression as Balshoi Kommandyr. Wouldn't it? Of course, if he did Soviet, not knowing the units, not knowing what he was doing and just agreed with the next highest man* would be totally authentic!

* He could also re-create purging himself on the Sunday afternoons as the shows end!

[Gott Mit Uns]

i can understand what you are saying geoff to see a GFM at the battle front would not be right they would be back at the HQ sorting stuff out and making sure everything went as smooth as possible so takning part in a battle would not work
at waltham abbey the other week at the end of the battle on the HQ it added something different for the mops to see when i was lead out by a private at gunpoint to offer my surrender with a hauptman from the feldgendarmie. the look on the brit privates face was a scene

See Scott, the thing is, your ideas would work great in a military environment where the HQ commands downwards....but this isnt the military mate and re-enactment groups micro-manage and look after themselves.

Secondly, it does seem like you are passing on real responcibility which in the re-enactment world would be deemed to come with such a high rank that you posses. It seems you are quite happy to be wheeled out infront of the public for your photo shoot Mr Daville, but not take any responcibility in doing anything. And for you to have any responcibility that is at least visible to the MOPS, you would have to choose a lower rank. I mean its just not realistic to have you in your 'red tabs' ordering around soldiers in a field situation, enless of course you are portraying a rare occasion where the brass visits the field troops. So what do you do for the rest of the time?

[Hoffman Grink]

It's de Ville innit?

By George, Sanster - Thou seemest to be grathping it What HO!