Please don't use this to gossip.
Please put down your views on Swynnerton if you attended - One day, both days, Friday too.... It matters not.
What was good,
What was poor,
What did you like, dislike
What was missing
What would you want including again
Your views on the event - Not a slagfest please - I'm not interested in "they did this, we didn that" and I don't give a damn at all who did or did not take hits.....
This seems to be the main focus.... It was NOT about who shot who......
Also can you attempt to answer me the following..... Honestly.... If not publicly, in a PM....
1. Did my group hack it?
2. To what degree? (percentage figure)
3. Did my group bring anything dangerous or unauthorised?
4. Did my group call shots?
5. What were our aims upon attending this event?
6. Were we there to get some trigger time?
7. Were we there to see what it feels like to be cold and wet and alone?
8. Which one did we achieve best?
9. Did we achieve what we said we would?
10. Which rules did we break?
11. Did we dig any holes?
12. Did we fill those holes in?
13. Did we leave any litter?
14. Did I take my hits?
15. Would it matter if the event didn’t rely on “winning and losing”?
16. Which is more important? Getting into the action or Getting into the spirit of it?
17. Am I/Is my Group a team player?
18. Am I willing to go further and enter into role play?
19. Am I a Re-enactor or a Living Historian?
20. Will my group be invited back based on our performance this time?
And
Authenticity Questions
1. Did I take anything modern into the field?
2. How many items? 1,3, 5, 10
3. Did I eat authentic food?
4. Did I cook by 1940s means?
5. Did I sleep basically?
6. How comfortable was I? (percentage)
7. Did I let myself/Me Group down with authenticity?
8. How?
9. Would I do it again and could I do it better?
10. What did I learn/achieve by doing it “authentically”?
Plans are already underway for 2007. And with help from those who took part..... Pete Skillman's legacy will be even better....
Please post this elsewhere if possible...... I'd like a lot of Allied feedback too.....
Swynnerton Debrief/Feedback thread
As this weekend was all about authenticity for me let me start this off:Authenticity Questions
1. Did I take anything modern into the field?
2. How many items? 1,3, 5, 10
3. Did I eat authentic food?
4. Did I cook by 1940s means?
5. Did I sleep basically?
6. How comfortable was I? (percentage)
7. Did I let myself/Me Group down with authenticity?
8. How?
9. Would I do it again and could I do it better?
10. What did I learn/achieve by doing it “authentically”?
1) Into the field no. Into the bunker just a 2L plastic bottle of water. Even the money in my wallet was original
2) See above
3) Oh yes.....and so did the rest of the group after our efforts
4) Yes. Camp fire, esbit and original WW2 woodburner
5) To right
6)40% (sleeping), 100% in field when not raining, 75% in field when raining
7) Yes.
8)Didn't take my turn at watch on Friday night, didn't participate in all the battles.
9) Yes. Improve my fitness, make sure I take part even when its raining, cold and I just want my bed
10) Its hard. I need to sort out better/warmer sleeping arrangements and the daily salt ration is essential (never had cramp like I did on Saturday evening before)
my only non period things where plastic water bottles.
x2
major gripe was one incident of shot calling
can honestly say i took it tho.
as what i did, i knew it was a risk.
another gripe is asking for help to reinforce crossroads .
message back was "erm im just having my tea first"
to be fair they had just come back off movements
but this would have made it a little more demanding to have had to go back out again and helped
result =not enough orders being adhered to .
field craft
was also a problem........not enough noise discipline.......and lighting up
whilst on patrol.
also lack of proper use of resources.
not enough people "playing the game"
as in using the passwords properly
people need to understand that when challenged they need to answer.
if shot dont walk away saying "i cannot be bothered to stop as i want to get to bed"
its ww2 ....did the vets say it
i may of pissed off a few people
maybe thinking who the hell is he to say this or that
but have been told it was down to being "passionate" about it.
my aims where to live it the best i could.
and i did.
slept on a bed on the floor ....i can because of my signals position.
cooked on a 1940's wicked burner again because we could have during ww2
if i did not have the burner it would have been the esbit .
food was almost period eccept for the tika massala .
genuine mistake as i had labeled tin up wrong.
cooked for brekky
so must have been mistake
liked running around assessing the situations and being part of command.
even tho i should not have been .
must addmit i should have shut up at times.
education wise
not enough elders telling us about ways of doing things
we need this to be educational as well
as it is a training event
x2
major gripe was one incident of shot calling
can honestly say i took it tho.
as what i did, i knew it was a risk.
another gripe is asking for help to reinforce crossroads .
message back was "erm im just having my tea first"
to be fair they had just come back off movements
but this would have made it a little more demanding to have had to go back out again and helped
result =not enough orders being adhered to .
field craft
was also a problem........not enough noise discipline.......and lighting up
whilst on patrol.also lack of proper use of resources.
not enough people "playing the game"
as in using the passwords properly
people need to understand that when challenged they need to answer.
if shot dont walk away saying "i cannot be bothered to stop as i want to get to bed"
its ww2 ....did the vets say it
i may of pissed off a few people
maybe thinking who the hell is he to say this or that
but have been told it was down to being "passionate" about it.
my aims where to live it the best i could.
and i did.
slept on a bed on the floor ....i can because of my signals position.
cooked on a 1940's wicked burner again because we could have during ww2
if i did not have the burner it would have been the esbit .
food was almost period eccept for the tika massala .
genuine mistake as i had labeled tin up wrong.
cooked for brekky
so must have been mistake
liked running around assessing the situations and being part of command.
even tho i should not have been .
must addmit i should have shut up at times.
education wise
not enough elders telling us about ways of doing things
we need this to be educational as well
as it is a training event
Last edited by les hearn on Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
95th nacht..attached 85th gebirgsjeager
have enigma ,will travel.
have enigma ,will travel.
-
Jon Das Reich
Ok i will have ago on answering this list mate.
What was good
The site, the Authenticity of allg roups involved
What was poor
The shot calling or not the shot calling reenactors on both sides found it difficult to determin if they had be "hit" or not, but some brits did seem to be bullit proof thou.
IMHO i think we need a system to help with the battle element that may be umpires allocated to each group each in contact with each other via walkie talkies etc, so if X group comes in contact with Y group each umpire can rely to each other whos been hit or hasnt.
What did you like, dislike
Like the venue and groups that attended always good to be reenacting didnt like the guys who wouldnt play the game
What was missing
nothing really best battle ive been too in years
What would you want including again
IMHO i would knock the night batle on the head as these can be dangerous, and can exclude guys who cant use a wepaon after dark.
The site warrented the use of vehicles with the raod system.
Your views on the event
Best battle for ages really enjoyed myself and in aching to prove it
1. Did my group hack it?
yes but we only were there for the saturday
2. To what degree? (percentage figure)
100%
3. Did my group bring anything dangerous or unauthorised?
just me
4. Did my group call shots?
No only " come on guys play the game"
5. What were our aims upon attending this event?
To enjoy ourselves
6. Were we there to get some trigger time?
as above
7. Were we there to see what it feels like to be cold and wet and alone?
No as we were there just for the one day ( were planning to stay and camp out in zelts on the saturday night but due to battle finishing roughly around 11am on sunday decided to head home on the saturday instead well i went to my folks only 5 miles away only see them 4 times ayear good enough excuse)
8. Which one did we achieve best?
N/A
9. Did we achieve what we said we would?
yes we enjoyed ourselves
10. Which rules did we break?
Bottle of pop in my gasmask cannister
11. Did we dig any holes?
no
12. Did we fill those holes in?
n/a
13. Did we leave any litter?
no
14. Did I take my hits?
yes
15. Would it matter if the event didn’t rely on “winning and losing”?
no
16. Which is more important? Getting into the action or Getting into the spirit of it?
in the spirit of things and enjoying ones self
17. Am I/Is my Group a team player?
hope so
18. Am I willing to go further and enter into role play?
depends
19. Am I a Re-enactor or a Living Historian?
depends on the event
20. Will my group be invited back based on our performance this time?
hope so
1. Did I take anything modern into the field?
just mobile phone for emergencys
3. Did I eat authentic food?
Is a ham sandwich is classed as authentic?
4. Did I cook by 1940s means?
no
5. Did I sleep basically?
didnt stay over
6. How comfortable was I? (percentage)
very was at my folks
7. Did I let myself/Me Group down with authenticity?
hope not
9. Would I do it again and could I do it better?
only by staying out over night
10. What did I learn/achieve by doing it “authentically”?
how bloody daft i am for doing this hobby
What was good
The site, the Authenticity of allg roups involved
What was poor
The shot calling or not the shot calling reenactors on both sides found it difficult to determin if they had be "hit" or not, but some brits did seem to be bullit proof thou.
IMHO i think we need a system to help with the battle element that may be umpires allocated to each group each in contact with each other via walkie talkies etc, so if X group comes in contact with Y group each umpire can rely to each other whos been hit or hasnt.
What did you like, dislike
Like the venue and groups that attended always good to be reenacting didnt like the guys who wouldnt play the game
What was missing
nothing really best battle ive been too in years
What would you want including again
IMHO i would knock the night batle on the head as these can be dangerous, and can exclude guys who cant use a wepaon after dark.
The site warrented the use of vehicles with the raod system.
Your views on the event
Best battle for ages really enjoyed myself and in aching to prove it
1. Did my group hack it?
yes but we only were there for the saturday
2. To what degree? (percentage figure)
100%
3. Did my group bring anything dangerous or unauthorised?
just me
4. Did my group call shots?
No only " come on guys play the game"
5. What were our aims upon attending this event?
To enjoy ourselves
6. Were we there to get some trigger time?
as above
7. Were we there to see what it feels like to be cold and wet and alone?
No as we were there just for the one day ( were planning to stay and camp out in zelts on the saturday night but due to battle finishing roughly around 11am on sunday decided to head home on the saturday instead well i went to my folks only 5 miles away only see them 4 times ayear good enough excuse)
8. Which one did we achieve best?
N/A
9. Did we achieve what we said we would?
yes we enjoyed ourselves
10. Which rules did we break?
Bottle of pop in my gasmask cannister
11. Did we dig any holes?
no
12. Did we fill those holes in?
n/a
13. Did we leave any litter?
no
14. Did I take my hits?
yes
15. Would it matter if the event didn’t rely on “winning and losing”?
no
16. Which is more important? Getting into the action or Getting into the spirit of it?
in the spirit of things and enjoying ones self
17. Am I/Is my Group a team player?
hope so
18. Am I willing to go further and enter into role play?
depends
19. Am I a Re-enactor or a Living Historian?
depends on the event
20. Will my group be invited back based on our performance this time?
hope so
1. Did I take anything modern into the field?
just mobile phone for emergencys
3. Did I eat authentic food?
Is a ham sandwich is classed as authentic?
4. Did I cook by 1940s means?
no
5. Did I sleep basically?
didnt stay over
6. How comfortable was I? (percentage)
very was at my folks
7. Did I let myself/Me Group down with authenticity?
hope not
9. Would I do it again and could I do it better?
only by staying out over night
10. What did I learn/achieve by doing it “authentically”?
how bloody daft i am for doing this hobby
Re: Swynnerton Debrief/Feedback thread
What was good,
........ being on guard friday 2.00 am wet, tired, cold , a little scared.
What was poor,
......... Brits throwing stick grenades back and being a bit captain scarlet.
What did you like, dislike
........ disliked some bods sleeping in cars if I`m honest
What was missing .
........ use of more vehicles on those lovely roads
What would you want including again
........... me
Top event for many many reasons
1.Did my group hack it? ........ yes I think so
2.To what degree? (percentage figure) ...... ask our group leader
3.Did my group bring anything dangerous or unauthorised? ... certainly not
4.Did my group call shots? ..... some of the time
5.What were our aims upon attending this event? ....... learn something, live history and have some fun with like minded pals.
6.Were we there to get some trigger time? ........ if the situation called for it.
7.Were we there to see what it feels like to be cold and wet and alone? ....... if we were then it worked for me
8.Which one did we achieve best? ....... wet
9.Did we achieve what we said we would? ....... I`d say so
10.Which rules did we break? ......... was booze in the rules ?
11Did we dig any holes? ....... no
12.Did we fill those holes in? N/A
13.Did we leave any litter? ....... not I am aware of
14.Did I take my hits? .......... oh yes
15.Would it matter if the event didn’t rely on “winning and losing”? ...... if we learnt something and had fun then we all won
16.Which is more important? Getting into the action or Getting into the spirit of it? ..... spirit gives you a longer lasting feeling.
17.Am I/Is my Group a team player? ......... yes
18.Am I willing to go further and enter into role play? ....depends but probably yes
19.Am I a Re-enactor or a Living Historian? .......... at first I thought re-enactor, this event has shown me living history at its best.
20.Will my group be invited back based on our performance this time?.......... I hope so as I didnt slump, soaked through on a hard cold floor for nothing.
And
Authenticity Questions
1.Did I take anything modern into the field? .... only my body and spare contacts.
2.How many items? 1,3, 5, 10 ........... see above
3.Did I eat authentic food? ....... bread , cheese, sausage for breakie and tea...yep
4.Did I cook by 1940s means? ............ esbit did me proud
5.Did I sleep basically? .... sleep ???? if this constitutes lying wet on a cold floor I`d call it basic
6.How comfortable was I? (percentage) lying down 10 % standing up 100%
7.Did I let myself/Me Group down with authenticity? ....not at all unless someone thinks so ???
8.How? N/A
9.Would I do it again and could I do it better? ....... Yes... only better if I find a younger body.
10.what did I learn/achieve by doing it “authentically”? ......... that your chances of being killed after a dreadful night were greatly increased but your nights comfort was controlled by someone other than yourself !!!!
Kev
http://www.kompanie1.co.uk
........ being on guard friday 2.00 am wet, tired, cold , a little scared.
What was poor,
......... Brits throwing stick grenades back and being a bit captain scarlet.
What did you like, dislike
........ disliked some bods sleeping in cars if I`m honest
What was missing .
........ use of more vehicles on those lovely roads
What would you want including again
........... me
Top event for many many reasons
1.Did my group hack it? ........ yes I think so
2.To what degree? (percentage figure) ...... ask our group leader
3.Did my group bring anything dangerous or unauthorised? ... certainly not
4.Did my group call shots? ..... some of the time
5.What were our aims upon attending this event? ....... learn something, live history and have some fun with like minded pals.
6.Were we there to get some trigger time? ........ if the situation called for it.
7.Were we there to see what it feels like to be cold and wet and alone? ....... if we were then it worked for me
8.Which one did we achieve best? ....... wet
9.Did we achieve what we said we would? ....... I`d say so
10.Which rules did we break? ......... was booze in the rules ?
11Did we dig any holes? ....... no
12.Did we fill those holes in? N/A
13.Did we leave any litter? ....... not I am aware of
14.Did I take my hits? .......... oh yes
15.Would it matter if the event didn’t rely on “winning and losing”? ...... if we learnt something and had fun then we all won
16.Which is more important? Getting into the action or Getting into the spirit of it? ..... spirit gives you a longer lasting feeling.
17.Am I/Is my Group a team player? ......... yes
18.Am I willing to go further and enter into role play? ....depends but probably yes
19.Am I a Re-enactor or a Living Historian? .......... at first I thought re-enactor, this event has shown me living history at its best.
20.Will my group be invited back based on our performance this time?.......... I hope so as I didnt slump, soaked through on a hard cold floor for nothing.
And
Authenticity Questions
1.Did I take anything modern into the field? .... only my body and spare contacts.
2.How many items? 1,3, 5, 10 ........... see above
3.Did I eat authentic food? ....... bread , cheese, sausage for breakie and tea...yep
4.Did I cook by 1940s means? ............ esbit did me proud
5.Did I sleep basically? .... sleep ???? if this constitutes lying wet on a cold floor I`d call it basic
6.How comfortable was I? (percentage) lying down 10 % standing up 100%
7.Did I let myself/Me Group down with authenticity? ....not at all unless someone thinks so ???
8.How? N/A
9.Would I do it again and could I do it better? ....... Yes... only better if I find a younger body.
10.what did I learn/achieve by doing it “authentically”? ......... that your chances of being killed after a dreadful night were greatly increased but your nights comfort was controlled by someone other than yourself !!!!
Kev
http://www.kompanie1.co.uk
-
Hoffman Grink
1. Did my group hack it?
Yes
2. To what degree? (percentage figure)
100%
3. Did my group bring anything dangerous or unauthorised?
Not that I found.
4. Did my group call shots?
NO, they know I hate that.
5. What were our aims upon attending this event?
Immersion, not to fire as many rounds as possible but to observe and stay alive.
6. Were we there to get some trigger time?
Not from my point of view, 15 rounds through my k98 all weekend.
7. Were we there to see what it feels like to be cold and wet and alone?
Yes
8. Which one did we achieve best?
I got successfully drenched at 2.00am Friday night and never dried out fully. I was alone in the dark when a couple of my guys got jumped, I only had a pistol and I could hear some 'roughing up'.
9. Did we achieve what we said we would?
I thought the there were many great aspects; the 'chained dogs' and the Axis HQ as weel as how Richard and Spencer directed the battle and patrols. Was a bit dubious about some of the bridge storming episodes.
10. Which rules did we break?
Fratinised with the enemy.
11. Did we dig any holes?
None
12. Did we fill those holes in?
N/A
13. Did we leave any litter?
Everything went back into the bread bag.
14. Did I take my hits?
We did.
15. Would it matter if the event didn’t rely on “winning and losing”?
You don't always need winning or losing.
16. Which is more important? Getting into the action or Getting into the spirit of it?
Spirit.
17. Am I/Is my Group a team player?
Yes
18. Am I willing to go further and enter into role play?
Yes
19. Am I a Re-enactor or a Living Historian?
Both
20. Will my group be invited back based on our performance this time?
I hope so, yes.
Authenticity Questions
1. Did I take anything modern into the field?
Inhaler, shame on me I know and I didn't need it either.
2. How many items? 1,3, 5, 10
3. Did I eat authentic food?
We had excellent ration packs supplied at cost by of of our unit which were the dogs b's.
4. Did I cook by 1940s means?
Yes, esbit
5. Did I sleep basically?
Yes
6. How comfortable was I? (percentage)
70
7. Did I let myself/Me Group down with authenticity?
No
8. How?
N/A
9. Would I do it again and could I do it better?
I would try to incorporate a longer 'rest time' scenario into my groups day, so they get a feel of the daily living frontline
10. What did I learn/achieve by doing it “authentically”?
It's always far easier being strictly authentic, you have everything you need with you always for shelter and food.
Yes
2. To what degree? (percentage figure)
100%
3. Did my group bring anything dangerous or unauthorised?
Not that I found.
4. Did my group call shots?
NO, they know I hate that.
5. What were our aims upon attending this event?
Immersion, not to fire as many rounds as possible but to observe and stay alive.
6. Were we there to get some trigger time?
Not from my point of view, 15 rounds through my k98 all weekend.
7. Were we there to see what it feels like to be cold and wet and alone?
Yes
8. Which one did we achieve best?
I got successfully drenched at 2.00am Friday night and never dried out fully. I was alone in the dark when a couple of my guys got jumped, I only had a pistol and I could hear some 'roughing up'.
9. Did we achieve what we said we would?
I thought the there were many great aspects; the 'chained dogs' and the Axis HQ as weel as how Richard and Spencer directed the battle and patrols. Was a bit dubious about some of the bridge storming episodes.
10. Which rules did we break?
Fratinised with the enemy.
11. Did we dig any holes?
None
12. Did we fill those holes in?
N/A
13. Did we leave any litter?
Everything went back into the bread bag.
14. Did I take my hits?
We did.
15. Would it matter if the event didn’t rely on “winning and losing”?
You don't always need winning or losing.
16. Which is more important? Getting into the action or Getting into the spirit of it?
Spirit.
17. Am I/Is my Group a team player?
Yes
18. Am I willing to go further and enter into role play?
Yes
19. Am I a Re-enactor or a Living Historian?
Both
20. Will my group be invited back based on our performance this time?
I hope so, yes.
Authenticity Questions
1. Did I take anything modern into the field?
Inhaler, shame on me I know and I didn't need it either.
2. How many items? 1,3, 5, 10
3. Did I eat authentic food?
We had excellent ration packs supplied at cost by of of our unit which were the dogs b's.
4. Did I cook by 1940s means?
Yes, esbit
5. Did I sleep basically?
Yes
6. How comfortable was I? (percentage)
70
7. Did I let myself/Me Group down with authenticity?
No
8. How?
N/A
9. Would I do it again and could I do it better?
I would try to incorporate a longer 'rest time' scenario into my groups day, so they get a feel of the daily living frontline
10. What did I learn/achieve by doing it “authentically”?
It's always far easier being strictly authentic, you have everything you need with you always for shelter and food.
Hanging up my Knochensack for now, it's been a good war!
I will give my opinion's of the event here as honestly as I can.
I think the Axis side of things went well, we generally took our hits, played the game and followed Pete's instruction's to a tee.
This I know for fact as the HQ area was packed with KIA German's by 11am Saturday, while the Allied field hospital could have hosted an International echo competition. Don't beleive me - then ask why they got some tea and coffee in to get any trade
Groups looked good, worked together and pushed themselves.
Some individual's were ropey - they were pinged and won't be returning if I have my way.
.
British Infantry have a lot to answer for, being rude in the carpark, throwing grenades back (yawn), and generally were on their own agenda's. Tommies then wondered why we were ignoring them. This is obviously a generalisation and some Tommies were excellent - but they were the minority.
Some Allied units were stood down? And when attacks were made they said "we're not ready" or just "laughed". Some real bonehead moves were made that would have ended in slaughter without a single casualty.
All this achieved was for morale to go down and people leave disheartened.
The bridge affair at Arnhem wasn't the best idea ever and even though I specifically said 15 dead please from the leading teams - everyone left it for someone else. Result was it didn't look too impressive.
Some like the night ambush, some don't, some said it was the most atmospheric thing they've done - all who went loved it.
I think it was fair, the Pippingford one we did some time ago was better.
Sunday was better then again they usually are as everyone normally been deaded a few times and once more don't hurt. Allied's were now dropping at 100yds range.
Honour system is beyond some, answer can only be marshall's in whatever form.
I think personally the hobby needs a Living history training day - because some just don't get it and on the day others don't have the time to explain it. Then again some take to it like ducks to water.
We should either get both sides ready in the carpark and do a this is/isnt acceptable, if your shot do this or this, but not this etc etc.
I'm not sure what the answer is
I think the Axis side of things went well, we generally took our hits, played the game and followed Pete's instruction's to a tee.
This I know for fact as the HQ area was packed with KIA German's by 11am Saturday, while the Allied field hospital could have hosted an International echo competition. Don't beleive me - then ask why they got some tea and coffee in to get any trade
Groups looked good, worked together and pushed themselves.
Some individual's were ropey - they were pinged and won't be returning if I have my way.
.
British Infantry have a lot to answer for, being rude in the carpark, throwing grenades back (yawn), and generally were on their own agenda's. Tommies then wondered why we were ignoring them. This is obviously a generalisation and some Tommies were excellent - but they were the minority.
Some Allied units were stood down? And when attacks were made they said "we're not ready" or just "laughed". Some real bonehead moves were made that would have ended in slaughter without a single casualty.
All this achieved was for morale to go down and people leave disheartened.
The bridge affair at Arnhem wasn't the best idea ever and even though I specifically said 15 dead please from the leading teams - everyone left it for someone else. Result was it didn't look too impressive.
Some like the night ambush, some don't, some said it was the most atmospheric thing they've done - all who went loved it.
I think it was fair, the Pippingford one we did some time ago was better.
Sunday was better then again they usually are as everyone normally been deaded a few times and once more don't hurt. Allied's were now dropping at 100yds range.
Honour system is beyond some, answer can only be marshall's in whatever form.
I think personally the hobby needs a Living history training day - because some just don't get it and on the day others don't have the time to explain it. Then again some take to it like ducks to water.
We should either get both sides ready in the carpark and do a this is/isnt acceptable, if your shot do this or this, but not this etc etc.
I'm not sure what the answer is
-
geoffpara
I'd like to add my thanks to the organisers and the other participants for a great time. The body was nicely fatigued and I have been re-acquainted with muscle groups that I’d forgotten about.
Within my group and in general conversations with other German reenactors there were the usual complaints of the other side not taking their shots. I have no doubt that the same comments were being made on the Allied side, and probably about my own unit as well! Mind you our expectations should allow for the impact of different variables such as the deflection properties of various cover we are trying to fire through, that we are not on the ranges in 'controlled, safe conditions' and that in the excitement/fear of the situation the proportion of accurate fire would be very small and therefore bringing effective fire down to relatively smaller ranges.
Another problem is that if you have adopted good cover and have good arcs of fire the enemy are unlikely to even have spotted you let alone be aware that you are firing at them. What do you do, break cover and start yelling at them? Hardly realistic! There was talk about using unit sani’s/medics as umpires but this introduces claims of bias and it wasn’t employed at the event anyway. This problem is accentuated if you wanted to introduce into the scenario at a future event infantry support weapons such as tripod mounted MGs or mortars with their increased ranges and possibly no direct line of sight. Would make units more tactically aware and less likely to hang around in large groups in what they thought as an area with no immediate threats… just like the real thing.
Is there something to be learned from the NATO armies in the use of independent umpires? They would be in a position to identify that the well thought out flanking attack would never have got off the ground because of the flanking MG they hadn’t seen. That running 30 yards over open ground, heavily laden into a line of rifleman in cover and waiting the assault is highly unlikely to be successful. Very quickly during or after an engagement an umpire can intervene if required to keep the realism intact and the complaints to a minimum. In the scenario in the previous sentence he can decide that that charge will cost you 90% casualties. How to find these umpires, well there are ways but the concept of their use needs to be agreed on by the different units and the event organisers. As we operate in small groups/numbers and come alive again within a prescribed time frame perhaps we should look at the scenarios and allow the dead to reform at a distance to attack once again in an organised group. The umpires could keep a count of the number of casualties they assign so we can make comparisons at a later stage. It would also allow the use of ‘more’ troops although still in small groups.
I’m fairly new to re-enacting although I have a fairly sound knowledge in military matters from having been in the regulars and TA (and also been a SNCO umpire on exercises). From my military interest of WW2 I have to look at what I saw at Swynnerton and I think this is fantastic, the array of accurate weapons, equipment and uniforms, you’d almost believe you were there in the actual time period. I’d give the standard 95%+ and my congratulations to all those for their effort and the expense they’ve gone to in order to get there. However, in general the use of unit tactics, and I’m not just using the Brit model to make my comparisons, we were not so accurate in our portrayal. A common complaint I’ve noticed on forums about ex-squadies is that they try to introduce Brit army tactics for all units. That would be just as unrealistic as some of the tactics I’ve seen in my limited re-enactment experiences. What fills me with optimism for getting it right in the field in the future is that need the premier groups, as selected for and represented at Swynnerton, demonstrate and constantly seek in getting it right in making it Living History.
If there is a continuum with at one end the blatt-fest and at the other the employment of sound tactics using your represented unit’s tactics and national characteristics then were would you place your re-enactment unit along that line at this time? Is this something we could advance between us all? You’ve got it pretty near damn perfect uniform and equipment wise, what about field tactics? I realise I’ve stuck my head over the parapet on this one and some will think me an upstart, others not realising the room for improvement in their own units, or just happy to carry on as they are, but if you think this is worth following up I’d be interested to hear from you and your thoughts on the subject.
Just like to thank Pete, Spence et al again for their hardwork and effort. It was worth the 6 hour drive down and another 5 back to have attended. I look forward to the next one.
Geoff
Within my group and in general conversations with other German reenactors there were the usual complaints of the other side not taking their shots. I have no doubt that the same comments were being made on the Allied side, and probably about my own unit as well! Mind you our expectations should allow for the impact of different variables such as the deflection properties of various cover we are trying to fire through, that we are not on the ranges in 'controlled, safe conditions' and that in the excitement/fear of the situation the proportion of accurate fire would be very small and therefore bringing effective fire down to relatively smaller ranges.
Another problem is that if you have adopted good cover and have good arcs of fire the enemy are unlikely to even have spotted you let alone be aware that you are firing at them. What do you do, break cover and start yelling at them? Hardly realistic! There was talk about using unit sani’s/medics as umpires but this introduces claims of bias and it wasn’t employed at the event anyway. This problem is accentuated if you wanted to introduce into the scenario at a future event infantry support weapons such as tripod mounted MGs or mortars with their increased ranges and possibly no direct line of sight. Would make units more tactically aware and less likely to hang around in large groups in what they thought as an area with no immediate threats… just like the real thing.
Is there something to be learned from the NATO armies in the use of independent umpires? They would be in a position to identify that the well thought out flanking attack would never have got off the ground because of the flanking MG they hadn’t seen. That running 30 yards over open ground, heavily laden into a line of rifleman in cover and waiting the assault is highly unlikely to be successful. Very quickly during or after an engagement an umpire can intervene if required to keep the realism intact and the complaints to a minimum. In the scenario in the previous sentence he can decide that that charge will cost you 90% casualties. How to find these umpires, well there are ways but the concept of their use needs to be agreed on by the different units and the event organisers. As we operate in small groups/numbers and come alive again within a prescribed time frame perhaps we should look at the scenarios and allow the dead to reform at a distance to attack once again in an organised group. The umpires could keep a count of the number of casualties they assign so we can make comparisons at a later stage. It would also allow the use of ‘more’ troops although still in small groups.
I’m fairly new to re-enacting although I have a fairly sound knowledge in military matters from having been in the regulars and TA (and also been a SNCO umpire on exercises). From my military interest of WW2 I have to look at what I saw at Swynnerton and I think this is fantastic, the array of accurate weapons, equipment and uniforms, you’d almost believe you were there in the actual time period. I’d give the standard 95%+ and my congratulations to all those for their effort and the expense they’ve gone to in order to get there. However, in general the use of unit tactics, and I’m not just using the Brit model to make my comparisons, we were not so accurate in our portrayal. A common complaint I’ve noticed on forums about ex-squadies is that they try to introduce Brit army tactics for all units. That would be just as unrealistic as some of the tactics I’ve seen in my limited re-enactment experiences. What fills me with optimism for getting it right in the field in the future is that need the premier groups, as selected for and represented at Swynnerton, demonstrate and constantly seek in getting it right in making it Living History.
If there is a continuum with at one end the blatt-fest and at the other the employment of sound tactics using your represented unit’s tactics and national characteristics then were would you place your re-enactment unit along that line at this time? Is this something we could advance between us all? You’ve got it pretty near damn perfect uniform and equipment wise, what about field tactics? I realise I’ve stuck my head over the parapet on this one and some will think me an upstart, others not realising the room for improvement in their own units, or just happy to carry on as they are, but if you think this is worth following up I’d be interested to hear from you and your thoughts on the subject.
Just like to thank Pete, Spence et al again for their hardwork and effort. It was worth the 6 hour drive down and another 5 back to have attended. I look forward to the next one.
Geoff
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Riedmuller
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:33 pm
- Location: Norfolk
Did you find the owner of the Etool carrier?LAH650 wrote: Also on a similar note, Groups being stood down and not being in the game. We TFH held the first bridge that is the one nearest the German HQ. We had continual contacts for 3 hours at least on Saturday morning, communications form organisers asked us to stand down, to let the British and others get some action, this we did. Yes 916 for example did rush us on the northern embankment only to find us helmets off digging in while stood down, happy they where not but it’s was just one of those things.
I wasent botherd an honest mistake
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Riedmuller
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:33 pm
- Location: Norfolk
