War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

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robin
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:28 pm

War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by robin »

The Northern Workd War 2 Association is holding its War in Europe Weekend at Pickering showground on 16 - 18 October 2009.

The event includes living histories, battles, vehicles, evening entertainment etc. Camping and caravaning available.
More details on NWW2A website events page: www.nww2a.co.uk

Re-enactment groups, military vehicle owners etc (and th epublic too of course) welcome to come along and help this event grow. Promises to be a great weekend complementing other similar events in the area.
robin
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by robin »

Update on the Pickering Showground event.

You may have heard/seen various items of negative publicity regarding the Showgroung recently (The Steam Rally). Since then the Showground has been sold and is under new ownership.

The NWW2A wartime weekend is still going ahead and there will be living histories, fire powerdisplay, battle, military vehicles, camping and caravaning available, etc on site. Whilst some of the facilities that were to be provided by the previous owners may not now be provided, (because they are/were outside the control of NWW2A) all elements of the NWW2A event are going ahead as planned.

The Royal British Legion static Spitfire display has now been confirmed at the event and will be fund raising.
The Northallerton and District Lioness CLub are also providing a Soup Kitchen/Aid Station selling hot food and drinks etc to raise funds for the Help for Heroes charity.
Hoffman Grink

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Robin - Has the showground been sold AGAIN? We heard this last year just prior to the last WWII event.
As you can well imagine - this will not do much to reinforce the confidence of those contemplating attendance.

Is this a NWWIIA event in whole or are the NWWIIA invited as participants to run someof the attractions? This too is a grey area for many people and perhaps if clarification was available then more people would consider making the long trek North.

I also think the main negativity surrounding this event is the fact that it clashes with a long established Steam Railway event - Before anyone corrects me - I know it's touted as complementing the original event but for many - myself included it is halving its own potential footfall whilst being in danger of doing the same to the Railway........ Any smart cookie would find another date and ensure a good footfall thus making a successful gig.
robin
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by robin »

Re: the showground ownership. The following has just been posted on the WW2reenactment forum by Paul Hilditch the NWW2A Events co-ordinator

"Last year the company who owned the Show Ground went broke, owing the nww2a £2500 – despite a contract and personal promises that they could pay! We took the man in charge into an IVA, with other creditors, however he defaulted straight away. He owed upwards of £3.5 million to various people. He then went with another company (The Pickering Steam Rally fiasco!), now this last lot have disappeared and been bought out by a very respectable and forward looking company.
They are very keen for an event to happen at The Show Ground this year and want to support and work with the re-enacting community very much- especially for future events.
However, the last lot who ran the Show Ground had not complied with all the necessary licensing Laws – so there will be no dance Friday and Saturday this year at The Show Ground arena. However, next year it will be back with a vengeance; we are assured."

Hope that helps to clarify the ownership issue.

Re: the event itself, The NWW2A has not just been invited as participants to run some of the attractions. The event is being orgainsed and ran by NWW2A (i.e. NWW2A is the promoter of the event). It is being ran by re-enactors for re-anctors. It is not being ran, organised or funded by any external organisation.

The event will offer living histories, fire power display, battle, military vehicles, traders, with fund raising for Royal Birtish Legion (sponsored by Platinum Galleries of Northallerton & Yarm) and Help for Heroes (ran by Northallerton & District Lioness Club). Our thanks for their support.

The site is still open for all those who want to camp over for the weekend (either authentically or modern, German or Allied) for a camping fee of £5 per modern car

Details and updated poster are on the NWW2A website events section www.nww2a.co.uk

Hope that clarifies that point too.

As for the date issue - as you say varying views on that, many people saying they will only head to Pickering once so events complementing each other, others feel they clash. An issue that has been well aired already so not going to add anything further.

Cheers

Robin
Hoffman Grink

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Thank you Robin - and thanks for lifting some of the veil surrounding this venture.

So can we say then that NWWIIA is in effect a business and has employers liability etc. ? It issues and enters into contracts and it will of course pay tax on earnings? Are there shareholders? Stakeholders etc? This is certainly of interest to a great many people as if the questions being posed are accurate - our hobby is indeed being turned into a business.

Were this to be the case then I think the innocence is lost and we are turning a corner.

Your revelations also seem to indicate that - along with the issues of competition between groups AND events - the camping fee which caused so much ire was indeed a charge on re-enactors by "re-enactors". If this feeling is validated, it is sure to cause some concern as perhaps someone was not being entirely truthful with their explanations of circumstances.

As said, there are a great many out in re-enactor land who will take much interest in this development.
robin
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by robin »

No, NWW2A is not a business but like any other legitimate re-enactment group, if it made a profit over a year, it would presumably be liable for corporation tax. It does not have employees and is therefore does not require employers liability insurance etc. It does, of course, as should any responsible reenactment group, have the necessary public liability insurances.

As for the issue of pricing, as with date, this has been fully aired and there are differing views, all of which I respect. However, I have no intention of commenting further on the matter.

I will leave it for the conspiracy theorists out there to make more of a mountain out of the mole hill, if they so wish.
Hoffman Grink

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Robin
I notice a distinct change in tone in your last reply. I do hope I am not being misinterpreted as everyone knows my dearly held aims are to further this hobby not endanger it - as a result of your answer - I would offer the following
Employers Liability Insurance - Volunteers and Voluntary Organisations
Often charities and voluntary organisations state that they do not require Employers Liability cover. The reasons given are varied but include:

- We do not have any paid staff;

- There is too much paperwork involved if we have this cover;

- We only have volunteers;

- My Insurer says the volunteers are covered on the public liability policy.

Q. Are the volunteers covered by a public liability policy?
A. No. As they are not third parties, i.e. they are actually carrying out some work for the organisation, they are excluded from cover on a Public Liability policy. The following exclusion is likely: Injury to "Employees". The definition of "Employee" includes "authorised voluntary worker".

Q. Do we need Employers Liability Insurance?
A. Legally you must have this cover if you have Employees.

- Volunteers who do the work for your organisation are still owed a duty of care under health and safety laws.

- If a volunteer is injured as a result of your negligence whilst carrying out voluntary activities, you could end up with a claim against the group.

- If you do not have Employers Liability cover, a successful claim may have to be met by the organisation, its trustees or committee members with possibly disastrous financial consequences for those involved.

Employers Liability Insurance - Our Recommendation
Our recommendation is that Employers Liability cover is essential protection. This need not be expensive and does not involve added paperwork.
This information is freely available on the internet - You have stated that you are promoting the event (NWWIIA that is) - To me and to many others that means you are somehow hiring the venue, footing the bills and organising the event from start to finish.... That's what you have said - So - Your people are unpaid volunteers if your last statement is accurate..... So FAR from trying to sabotage anything - the information above is designed to help protect you....... Perhaps you were not aware - if this is the case I would swiftly pass this on to your committee....... Holding this event without ELI could render you liable to prosecution......
robin
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by robin »

Be assured it wasn't a dig at you Hoffman - your questions are perfectly reasonable - and I appreciate your motives

But I must say I do not see other shows being interrogated in this way. What is so wrong with a group putting on its own event? Why should a group always be slaves to an external promoter? Plenty of others have been quite vocal in claiming that they organise shows, so why are they not subject to the same interrogation?

The issue of insurances has in fact been discussed and checked and NWW2A have the necessary covers to opperate as it always does and specifically in respect of this show. Your comments re insurance, and employers liability, of course equally apply to every active re-enactment group in the country and not just NWW2A. In fact the showground event will make no material difference in this respect. I presume all other groups also have covers to which you refer?

Any Member of NWW2A is entitled to ask questions about the internal running of the organisation at their AGM. With the greatest of respect, that would be the appropriate place to query many of the issues raised by various people as, to be honest, it really isn't anybody elses business. To avoid any attempts at deliberate misinterpretation (not directed at you Hoffman) it is accpeted that not all issues that have been raised fall into the above category.
Hoffman Grink

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by Hoffman Grink »

You are somewhat off the mark Robin. And I know when I'm being toldf to butt out - But ebveryone has a right to ask questions - Just as everyone has a right not to answer them - Choosing that route though would cast a shadow on one's integrity - I think you'd agree.
I am cdertainly not "interrogating" this event. To illustrate though why people may be somewhat sceptical however let me use the Victory Show as an example.
THe organisers are known to us, the event is advertised widely and there are no issues with attendance, hidden charges, venue or the reasons for the event. THe Victory Show holds event insurance, employers liability and all the other raft of requirements of that nature. It files accounts, It. has accountability. It takes care not to clash with similar events on the same date and locality.

I assure you - I have no axe to grind - If I had = ask anyone - I'd explain plainly and comprehensivley what the axe consisted of,,,,,,, I am merely curious and - and - concerned. It is literally no skin off my nose as my weekend is preplanned on that date.

Back to your statement on insurances - there is a specific question on the insurance proposal forms that re-enactment groups fill in. It asks if you intend to stage events - and how many people you will employ. Most of us don't indeed oreganise events - we participate in them. That's what I thought groups were meant to do. So employers liability insurance does NOT apply equally to other groups.

Now the bit where I'm told to more or less shut up - You are right - I'm not a shareholder in NWWIIA - but increasingly it appears to a great many that NWWIIA is acting like a business and has a formula for "selling a package" to organisers. Now NWWIIA is announcing that it is holding its own commercial event and inviting others to come and participate. That to the established community is not re-enactment and it's not living history. You can't branch out in this manner and expect not to be questioned - It's unsettling for the hobbyists - It has potential implications for how we are viewed and indeed how the hobby is percieved.

I have tried to ask open questions after reading what I thought was an open post. I'm now being politely asked to back off and "mind my own business" - I think that approach merely begets even more questions by a wider audience -

I have tried to give you some information that perhaps you were not aware of. - If I were to attend this Showground event I would be asking in advance -as is my right - to view proof of appropriate cover - I would be making doubly sure that I was properly covered in the event of a mishap. The NWWIIA is a very interesting organisation - and one that is being watched closely.

I'll call it a day for the moment then. I've had my questions answered in part at least.
les hearn
Posts: 1525
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: essex

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by les hearn »

verry valid points raised by herr pd :wink:

milestones are being passed here

many no need to be passed i presume :wink:
95th nacht..attached 85th gebirgsjeager

have enigma ,will travel.
robin
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by robin »

Update on information

A Parkand Ride Service will now be operatiing between the Showground and Pickering next Saturday and Sunday
robin
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: War in Europe weekend - Pickering Showground 16 - 18 Oct 09

Post by robin »

Pleased to report an excellent event at the showground.
Good public feedback and lots of really good publicity (TV Radio and Papers) for NWW2A and the events arising from our press releases. Also phot shoots for various magazines etc.

Thanks to all involved and to those who turned up to visit us etc.
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