Women On The Battlefield Thread
Hello,
I'm glad this worked out after all.
Not knowing Bee, I couldn't tell how she looks in uniform, so my statement is not based on personal relations to one certain lady, but on my experiences with women in the ranks in my Napoleonic unit.
When the original unit split up, I was left with only three men all told and when the wife of one of my chaps suggested that she could put together a Grenadier's kit, I had to re-think my usual standpoint of "no women in the ranks". I did and told her to get started.
She put together her kit and as long as events were pretty static, things were well. She didn't look the part, but she was a lot more active than some of the new recruits. When things became more sportive, though, her physique gave in and it showed that she couldn't pull the weight of a man. We noted this several times. I've been kicking me in the buttocks ever since I allowed her in, because despite of one musket more in the ranks, I know deep down that it still isn't right and it is obvious what she is.
She is a great person, don't get me wrong, but she just isn't what she's pretending to be.
best regards,
Volker
I'm glad this worked out after all.
Not knowing Bee, I couldn't tell how she looks in uniform, so my statement is not based on personal relations to one certain lady, but on my experiences with women in the ranks in my Napoleonic unit.
When the original unit split up, I was left with only three men all told and when the wife of one of my chaps suggested that she could put together a Grenadier's kit, I had to re-think my usual standpoint of "no women in the ranks". I did and told her to get started.
She put together her kit and as long as events were pretty static, things were well. She didn't look the part, but she was a lot more active than some of the new recruits. When things became more sportive, though, her physique gave in and it showed that she couldn't pull the weight of a man. We noted this several times. I've been kicking me in the buttocks ever since I allowed her in, because despite of one musket more in the ranks, I know deep down that it still isn't right and it is obvious what she is.
She is a great person, don't get me wrong, but she just isn't what she's pretending to be.
best regards,
Volker
I have only just found this thread, I am glad that a compromise has been found. I know that Bee will "look the part" whatever role she does.
Bee, Feel free to visit Beate and me, whenever you find the time again.
As a group leader it can be difficult to say no to people sometimes, and a real giant (heavy built and over 7 foot tall) joined my group. I thought a combat role would not be realistic. So we put him in charge of the vehicle section, and he really knows his stuff better than any man alive!
Now that we have a DUKW we could never be without him!
Cheers, Bill
Bee, Feel free to visit Beate and me, whenever you find the time again.
As a group leader it can be difficult to say no to people sometimes, and a real giant (heavy built and over 7 foot tall) joined my group. I thought a combat role would not be realistic. So we put him in charge of the vehicle section, and he really knows his stuff better than any man alive!
Now that we have a DUKW we could never be without him!
Cheers, Bill
- Pete Skillman
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:41 am
- Location: Great Britain
Women in the ranks
Hi All, I do Kings German Legion, Napoleonic era , Basically rifles but NOT "sharpes Rifles".
Our unit once prided itself on being one of the authentic in the Napoleonic assoc,Open fire cooking, raw authentic receipes,no modern utencils, cast iron pans,kettles etc.... however we have women who started out happy portraying camp followers and doing the camp life, very important role to the army of the peninsular but after a few years suddenly one year short muskets arrived with the allowance of the head shed and suddenly we now march on with women dressed as spannish Guerillas onto public shows and trips abroad to Spain, but they actually look like they have walked off a 1960s B movie! top hats/matching military style but NOT, short coatees!!, I think Jon said open a door and flood gates open, well its happened to us and I believe this season will be the finish of our once well oredered and respected group because I personnely dont find it realistic having to march into the Le Haye Saint at Waterloo with wimin in the ranks who were never there but because the husbands are too scared
to tell them where to get off they are basically running the unit!!.
Nothing against Bee, totaly different. Cheers Pete
Our unit once prided itself on being one of the authentic in the Napoleonic assoc,Open fire cooking, raw authentic receipes,no modern utencils, cast iron pans,kettles etc.... however we have women who started out happy portraying camp followers and doing the camp life, very important role to the army of the peninsular but after a few years suddenly one year short muskets arrived with the allowance of the head shed and suddenly we now march on with women dressed as spannish Guerillas onto public shows and trips abroad to Spain, but they actually look like they have walked off a 1960s B movie! top hats/matching military style but NOT, short coatees!!, I think Jon said open a door and flood gates open, well its happened to us and I believe this season will be the finish of our once well oredered and respected group because I personnely dont find it realistic having to march into the Le Haye Saint at Waterloo with wimin in the ranks who were never there but because the husbands are too scared
to tell them where to get off they are basically running the unit!!.
Nothing against Bee, totaly different. Cheers Pete
-
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:14 am
With the right stud between my thighs, I would surely make a good Valkyrie
But to the topic itself....
I know Bee can hold her ground and she looks "the part", but as for historical correctness, sorry...no crossdressing, unless you find evidence that a woman has fought dressed as a man and base your reenactment on that character.
Liebe Grüße,
Beate...whose female assests would be too obvious to portray a Herr
But to the topic itself....
I know Bee can hold her ground and she looks "the part", but as for historical correctness, sorry...no crossdressing, unless you find evidence that a woman has fought dressed as a man and base your reenactment on that character.
Liebe Grüße,
Beate...whose female assests would be too obvious to portray a Herr
Hi Jon,
In a German combat unit a uniformed woman armed with a rifle, would be limited to the Flakhelferin who fought during the retreat from Southern France 1944... The Volkssturm were also known to have some women in their ranks... and the woman in uniform during the breakout from Berlin in the "Untergang".
But as a general rule, no armed women in the Wehrmacht/Waffen-SS.
NO LAUGHING MATTER, SERIOUS QUESTION, WHAT IF:
What if a man wanted to dress up as a DRK Nurse or Flakhelferin, would you allow that to happen, even if he looked like a woman?
Cheers, Bill
I agree with you Jon, I would not want a woman dressed as a man in my unit. Unless a reason could be found for doing so. Beate plays a woman in my unit, a NAAFI Lady. When Beate plays with the BFC, she is an Abwehr Agent... so each time, she is what she looks like, a woman.Bill,
would you allow a woman to dress up as a man in your BFC unit or your British unit?
In a German combat unit a uniformed woman armed with a rifle, would be limited to the Flakhelferin who fought during the retreat from Southern France 1944... The Volkssturm were also known to have some women in their ranks... and the woman in uniform during the breakout from Berlin in the "Untergang".
But as a general rule, no armed women in the Wehrmacht/Waffen-SS.
NO LAUGHING MATTER, SERIOUS QUESTION, WHAT IF:
What if a man wanted to dress up as a DRK Nurse or Flakhelferin, would you allow that to happen, even if he looked like a woman?
Cheers, Bill
Bill,
Would like to see you in your BDM uniform and pig tails or is that only reserved for Beate?
Joking aside to me its the same cross dressing no matter what sex is a big no no. IMHO it does make groups look unprofessional just like Pete said regarding his Nepoleonic group.
I think theres many roles women can portray within WW2 reenactment but one of the major problems is that too many people think with a modern brain and not how people acted or thought in the 40's, for example women were expected to be housewifes cook, clean iron etc,be the little woman but ask a woman to reenact that you would be classed as sexist in todays day and age.
Would it be the same if you turned someone down because they are the wrong colour as this would go for the all reenactment groups as i can see.
Say a African asked to join your group you turn him down but say why not join a french reenactment group or a British colonial, or do African free legion. Theres many different ways to reenact but not always the unit you want for one reason or another.
An American group based in the UK asked the race relations if it would be racist if they turned someone down due to their colour they were told no because you are trying to portray an historical unit.
Would it be ok for me to blacken myself up and be a Tuskegee airman?
Would like to see you in your BDM uniform and pig tails or is that only reserved for Beate?
Joking aside to me its the same cross dressing no matter what sex is a big no no. IMHO it does make groups look unprofessional just like Pete said regarding his Nepoleonic group.
I think theres many roles women can portray within WW2 reenactment but one of the major problems is that too many people think with a modern brain and not how people acted or thought in the 40's, for example women were expected to be housewifes cook, clean iron etc,be the little woman but ask a woman to reenact that you would be classed as sexist in todays day and age.
Would it be the same if you turned someone down because they are the wrong colour as this would go for the all reenactment groups as i can see.
Say a African asked to join your group you turn him down but say why not join a french reenactment group or a British colonial, or do African free legion. Theres many different ways to reenact but not always the unit you want for one reason or another.
An American group based in the UK asked the race relations if it would be racist if they turned someone down due to their colour they were told no because you are trying to portray an historical unit.
Would it be ok for me to blacken myself up and be a Tuskegee airman?
I remember in the 70s we had a Pakistani who wanted to reenact Wehrmacht and we got around this by wearing a "Free India Legion" armshield.
When I reenact Wehrmacht in Germany, due to the fact that the units contain "REAL" Germans, I am out of place with my English accent.
So they allow me to wear a "Union Jack" volunteer armshield.... something that would not have had to be considered in the UK, simply because the Wehrmacht units contain "REAL" Brits, one extra Brit would not have been noticed.
Cheers, Bill
When I reenact Wehrmacht in Germany, due to the fact that the units contain "REAL" Germans, I am out of place with my English accent.
So they allow me to wear a "Union Jack" volunteer armshield.... something that would not have had to be considered in the UK, simply because the Wehrmacht units contain "REAL" Brits, one extra Brit would not have been noticed.
Cheers, Bill
Hi BillBill Medland wrote: NO LAUGHING MATTER, SERIOUS QUESTION, WHAT IF: What if a man wanted to dress up as a DRK Nurse or Flakhelferin, would you allow that to happen, even if he looked like a woman?
Cheers, Bill
I have seen just that happen, although it was in a Brit group.
I was in US 84th Division, Railsplitters, we work closely with a Brit unit. They had a few Gals with them that worked in 'helpers' capacity and they looked great, until a new male recruit joined who on his second event decided to come as a woman helper. Nothing against what he what to do, whatever floats your parachute, but it didn't go down well. It spooked the other ladies and he was asked not to do it again.
Glad a compromise has been reached.
Darren
Hanging up my Knochensack for now, it's been a good war!