Wehrmacht Snipers

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Grenadier1
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Wehrmacht Snipers

Post by Grenadier1 »

I have a couple of questions. I recently watched this video on Youtube and it has led me to want to find out more about German snipers and their tactics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJE-ls-7 ... re=related (with music)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJE-ls-7 ... re=related (original with US Army dubbing)

Secondly I was wondering what the ratio of snipers/sniper teams was to infantry platoons, and if they operated in a dedicated unit all the time or whether they were just picked when the need arised. What was the ratio of snipers to platoons/squads within standard Grenadier/Infantry regiments and divisions, particularly Grossdeutschland?

I understand that the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS stepped up their sniper training as the war progressed but I have really no knowledge of the German sniper within the Army or the Waffen SS.
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Ropes
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Re: Wehrmacht Snipers

Post by Ropes »

Unfortunately information on snipers is pretty limited. Id be amazed if you can find specifics like ratios out. There were no dedicated german sniper units. Deploying snipers on mass was a russian tactic that the Germans never used. It could depend on how the Sniper Got his Job. Some German snipers Became snipers of there own backs initially using Russian scoped rifles and later after doing well being sent for sniper training. Others were Arived at the front allready having attended sniper schools.

Try asking here.

http://axissnipercollective.proboards.com/index.cgi
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wolfsangel
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Re: Wehrmacht Snipers

Post by wolfsangel »

The history of the german sharp shooters dates back to the first world war where hunters were encouraged to join the army with their own weapon as not only were they familiar with the weapon they were in general alreadhy a good shot due to the hunting experience.
This led, in comparison to the british army at least, to higher than average numbers of sharp shooters per unit - they didn't like the term sniper as it implied under handed tactics (which was the british stance until 1916).
Following WW1 the remnants of the German army /defence force continued the practice of training sharp shooters, but again the british decided it was un-necessary as we now ruled the world and there would be peace for evermore etc etc (Royal Navy still trained Marines in Sharp shooting). So at the start of WW2 the german army once again had a high percentage of either well trained soldiers or teams that acted as snipers within units/divisions.
The plan was for all K98 issued to eventually be issued with a scope however supply never got anywhere near demand and so the natural progression of priority based supply meant that the sharp shooters got the best kit. Mauserwerk would test rifles and set aside the 'best' ones for issue to snipers also.
All of this is from memory and I thought htat the german army did actually go for dedicated sniper sub sections within divisions of the army - I will try and find the source where I read all this and get back to you xxx
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Ropes
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Re: Wehrmacht Snipers

Post by Ropes »

What? At the start of the war the german army had a high percentage of soldiers that acted as Sniprs within there units? I would like the source of that as I cant help but feel that isnt right. From what I recall Snipers were a rare commodity early on and it wasnt until Russia the need became apparent for Snipers within the German forces. Hence the large majority of early German snipers using captured nagants.
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Pug42
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Re: Wehrmacht Snipers

Post by Pug42 »

Are we not confusing sharpshooters with actual snipers here when talking about the relative numbers?
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Sheikh Al Stranghi
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Re: Wehrmacht Snipers

Post by Sheikh Al Stranghi »

Grossdeutschland had it's own small sniper training unit:

Scharfschutzen-Lehrgang der Ersatz und Ausbildungs Abteilung Brig (Mot) "Großdeutschland", stationed in Cottbus, Germany.

The late war panzergrenadierkompanie had three sharpshooters, directly under the company commander's command. The late war regular infantry company had six, also under direct command of the company commander. They would assist the platoons wherever needed and they were given a lot of freedom to do their job. They were excused from regular fatigue duty.

Before 1943, there were no dedicated unit sharpshooters, so units improvised whenever possible. A lot of these sharpshooters operated at battalion or company level wherever needed, and depending on the unit. Training was not formalized and emphasized at the army level until 1943.
The people who were already working as snipers before that time often went to a sniper school, but not always, so "formal" sharpshooters and "improvized" sharpshooters could be working together in the same area. There was a shortage of optics, so basically any type they could find was used. Civilian, captured, anything. The ZF41 was mainly intended for training and for general issue to infantry units, but it was issued to dedicated sharpshooters as well, probably due to shortages. It seems to be the main type of optic in Luftwaffe use. It's pretty vague but I hope this will help you understand it a little better!
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Ropes
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Re: Wehrmacht Snipers

Post by Ropes »

Sheikh Al Stranghi wrote:Grossdeutschland had it's own small sniper training unit:

Scharfschutzen-Lehrgang der Ersatz und Ausbildungs Abteilung Brig (Mot) "Großdeutschland", stationed in Cottbus, Germany.

The late war panzergrenadierkompanie had three sharpshooters, directly under the company commander's command. The late war regular infantry company had six, also under direct command of the company commander. They would assist the platoons wherever needed and they were given a lot of freedom to do their job. They were excused from regular fatigue duty.

Before 1943, there were no dedicated unit sharpshooters, so units improvised whenever possible. A lot of these sharpshooters operated at battalion or company level wherever needed, and depending on the unit. Training was not formalized and emphasized at the army level until 1943.
The people who were already working as snipers before that time often went to a sniper school, but not always, so "formal" sharpshooters and "improvized" sharpshooters could be working together in the same area. There was a shortage of optics, so basically any type they could find was used. Civilian, captured, anything. The ZF41 was mainly intended for training and for general issue to infantry units, but it was issued to dedicated sharpshooters as well, probably due to shortages. It seems to be the main type of optic in Luftwaffe use. It's pretty vague but I hope this will help you understand it a little better!


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