The "disclaimers" in Germany have anounced why they made the
disclaimer against Waffen-SS reenactment!
QUOTE:"The disclaimer and our alienation against SS re-enactment groups happened
because of what they are doing in Britain, as an act of self- defence
against possible consequences of their behaviour for us."
Read it yourselves on the Swiss forum, some is in English, I join on page four.
http://reenactorenforum.parlaris.com/ft ... asc-0.html
Cheers, Bill.
The reason for the anti-Waffen-SS disclaimer
Moderator: johankreig
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Hoffman Grink
Bill - The real Nazis on that forum banned me when they couldn't offer real reasons for their actions - Actions that you adn I both know to be a blind for their real acitvities and aspiratioins. If I could I would respond - But I can't so I shan't - Frankly I'm bored with them. They can nver have what we in the UK have and they will never achieve what we here have. So they must sit and rot in their jealousy.
There are some brave people on ther ewho try to be fair and redress the balance - It's no good - They are shouted down in a manner that reminds me of a Wochenshau of Goebbels.
Let them play their games as they will - The disgrace is that a German was caught making racist statements and it was allegedly Dutch people NOT IN SS Uniform who claimed to actually be members of a Neo Nazi Organisation. The irony is that the people on that forum rant like the fascists they despise.
Don't waste your energy Bill - leave them well alone - Or you will be accused of keeping bad company - THEM!!!!!
There are some brave people on ther ewho try to be fair and redress the balance - It's no good - They are shouted down in a manner that reminds me of a Wochenshau of Goebbels.
Let them play their games as they will - The disgrace is that a German was caught making racist statements and it was allegedly Dutch people NOT IN SS Uniform who claimed to actually be members of a Neo Nazi Organisation. The irony is that the people on that forum rant like the fascists they despise.
Don't waste your energy Bill - leave them well alone - Or you will be accused of keeping bad company - THEM!!!!!
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Maus Commander
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:19 pm
See, at least when I say something stupid in regards to any Group/ SS group I don't go that far.... 
I mean, seriously. What the heck?
The problem with idealists is they are as bad as the bigots.
Perhaps they may one day realize that in their ivory towers against intolerance that they have a bigoted intolerance for people who are not tolerant, thus making them no better than the people they decry. A delicious Catch 22.
It's all perfectly well respecting views, but it's a nasty double edged sword for those who simply cannot stomach "blue" points of view. While I disagree with such views being expressed in such uniforms, I've heard comments as worse done by Allied reenactors, so nowadays I shrug for the most part.
I also get the impression that some European reenactors have actually been lazy in their pursuit of government dialogue and press recognition for their portrayal of living history, thus needing this paranoid-disclaimer to stop some big bureaucratic fist coming down on them in a "by association" ruling.
But that's just me being me I guess.
Edited for additional: Just me or do these people think such groups invite any old such sod in and don't go into actual background checks?
It's certainly what I was told by an SBG fellow back at Peak.
I mean, seriously. What the heck?
The problem with idealists is they are as bad as the bigots.
Perhaps they may one day realize that in their ivory towers against intolerance that they have a bigoted intolerance for people who are not tolerant, thus making them no better than the people they decry. A delicious Catch 22.
It's all perfectly well respecting views, but it's a nasty double edged sword for those who simply cannot stomach "blue" points of view. While I disagree with such views being expressed in such uniforms, I've heard comments as worse done by Allied reenactors, so nowadays I shrug for the most part.
I also get the impression that some European reenactors have actually been lazy in their pursuit of government dialogue and press recognition for their portrayal of living history, thus needing this paranoid-disclaimer to stop some big bureaucratic fist coming down on them in a "by association" ruling.
But that's just me being me I guess.
Edited for additional: Just me or do these people think such groups invite any old such sod in and don't go into actual background checks?
It's certainly what I was told by an SBG fellow back at Peak.
Seems such a happy place on that forum. Not! The 'storm' seems worse on there! I also take it, Bill, that going by the tag line, Pauke-Pauke is some form of nemisis?
Me thinks I shall stay here with like minded and friendly people.
Of course, my Germ an is crap so I could not write much anyways!
Me thinks I shall stay here with like minded and friendly people.
Of course, my Germ an is crap so I could not write much anyways!
SS-U.f.w. Steinmetz
SBG Mechanics Section - Keeping the Reich rolling since '33!
SBG Mechanics Section - Keeping the Reich rolling since '33!
Re: The reason for the anti-Waffen-SS disclaimer
Ohh, I have heard that argumentation somewhere before... Lemme think
replace "disclaimer and our alienation against SS re-enactment groups" with 'invasion of xxxinsertanycountryherexxx"
ANGST!
replace "disclaimer and our alienation against SS re-enactment groups" with 'invasion of xxxinsertanycountryherexxx"
ANGST!bee.
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the greatest pet i had was a flat rat.
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the greatest pet i had was a flat rat.
I dunno why, but its reminded me of something a departed relative (ex GPR - fought at Arnhem i believe) once told me:
"The problem with those continentals is that they get ideas about telling others what they should and shouldn't be doing - when its none of their business"
I've edited out the swearing. He could turn the air blue quicker than anyone else ive ever known lol
"The problem with those continentals is that they get ideas about telling others what they should and shouldn't be doing - when its none of their business"
I've edited out the swearing. He could turn the air blue quicker than anyone else ive ever known lol
Major Richard Heidrich: "Why do you want to jump out of a perfectly good aeroplane?"
Willi Schmidt: "When the Luftwaffe builds a perfectly good aeroplane, Sir, I shan't need to"
Willi Schmidt: "When the Luftwaffe builds a perfectly good aeroplane, Sir, I shan't need to"
I must say that some of the people from germany pauke-pauke and others where at the last reenacting show in switzerland .... none of them was brave enough to come to the vietnam or the italian display to say hello ...
... big mouthed on the internet and cowards in public.
... big mouthed on the internet and cowards in public.
Ci vediamo
Daniela
Dove c'e' da Rievocare noi Rievochiamo - Dove c'e' da Ricostruire noi Ricostruiamo
Daniela
Dove c'e' da Rievocare noi Rievochiamo - Dove c'e' da Ricostruire noi Ricostruiamo
Discussions can be good for making up one's opinion, that is why I sometimes have the urge to get involved. And have shit thrown at me, sometomes childish behaviour, and intrusions of forum etiquette (changing one's posting without having an 'edited' notice at the bottom), and sometimes even exposing themselves as blatantly stupid (on the Swiss forum shouting at Foreigners without being Swiss themselves, somebody may have answered on that, but I feel to stick to the issues, not scoring cheap points), in the end some may see the light.
Och well, I'll try to give up. I want to get on with my life, do some more motorcycling, re-enacting , having friends etc.
Now on a different note within this discussion: if you were to put the fighting SS atrocities next to the Heer's atrocities (there was a German photograph exhibition on the Army's role in all the slaughter a few years back, that raised a lot of dust, as the good people all knew for a fact that it was only the SS); what sort of totals/figures would you get, especially when you were to put them in relation to the actual number of troops involved?
Some of the German people involved in the discussion seem to have decided that German Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine can be made publicly acceptable in Germany, partly by the sacrifice of SS re-enactment as the real SS were all tarred as 'criminals' by the Nuernburg trials. And to be practical: on the continent I can see this work.
WDRob
Och well, I'll try to give up. I want to get on with my life, do some more motorcycling, re-enacting , having friends etc.
Now on a different note within this discussion: if you were to put the fighting SS atrocities next to the Heer's atrocities (there was a German photograph exhibition on the Army's role in all the slaughter a few years back, that raised a lot of dust, as the good people all knew for a fact that it was only the SS); what sort of totals/figures would you get, especially when you were to put them in relation to the actual number of troops involved?
Some of the German people involved in the discussion seem to have decided that German Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine can be made publicly acceptable in Germany, partly by the sacrifice of SS re-enactment as the real SS were all tarred as 'criminals' by the Nuernburg trials. And to be practical: on the continent I can see this work.
WDRob
Hi Forum,
I have left the German reenactment scene after four years, I have tried
to help and guide them. It was sadly a waste of time.
They are so afraid to come out into the open with their hobby,
as if there is some stigma attached, they hide it from their friends
and employers, hide behind disclaimers like jellyfish.
There is no unity, if one is attacked the others keep quiet and let you
sink, just glad it was not them!
My family and I, have been attacked for well over a year now, only a
very small handful of German reenactors came to my aid.
They are afraid of "Pea dot camo" as if it would cast a magic spell on them!
I was told to stop wearing W-SS uniforms in the UK, as it would
reflect back on them, they tell people what they can and cant do abroad!
About nine months ago I stopped getting event info, my PMs and forum
threads on the German language forums went unanswered.
in effect I was isolated, they did not have the bollocks to tell me that
they did not want me!
I consider myself a full member of the UK scene,
who just happens to live in Germany.
P.S. This is not aimed at the one or two Germans who have helped me,
they know who they are.
Cheers, Bill.
I have left the German reenactment scene after four years, I have tried
to help and guide them. It was sadly a waste of time.
They are so afraid to come out into the open with their hobby,
as if there is some stigma attached, they hide it from their friends
and employers, hide behind disclaimers like jellyfish.
There is no unity, if one is attacked the others keep quiet and let you
sink, just glad it was not them!
My family and I, have been attacked for well over a year now, only a
very small handful of German reenactors came to my aid.
They are afraid of "Pea dot camo" as if it would cast a magic spell on them!
I was told to stop wearing W-SS uniforms in the UK, as it would
reflect back on them, they tell people what they can and cant do abroad!
About nine months ago I stopped getting event info, my PMs and forum
threads on the German language forums went unanswered.
in effect I was isolated, they did not have the bollocks to tell me that
they did not want me!
I consider myself a full member of the UK scene,
who just happens to live in Germany.
P.S. This is not aimed at the one or two Germans who have helped me,
they know who they are.
Cheers, Bill.
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axis sally
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:14 am
missyd wrote:
mind you just, as he said, to piss on it
But then.....in regard to the "disclaimer fraction" all I say is said by Catherine Tate already!
AM I BOVVERED
Cheers, Beate
Oh Daniela, I do recall reading on the Swiss forum, that Pauke-Pauke even visited your tent at night....none of them was brave enough to come to the vietnam or the italian display
mind you just, as he said, to piss on it
But then.....in regard to the "disclaimer fraction" all I say is said by Catherine Tate already!
AM I BOVVERED
Cheers, Beate
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Maus Commander
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:19 pm
Probably scared that you'd lynch them and eat their bones or something.missyd wrote:I must say that some of the people from germany pauke-pauke and others where at the last reenacting show in switzerland .... none of them was brave enough to come to the vietnam or the italian display to say hello ...
... big mouthed on the internet and cowards in public.
After all you must be a monster to do this sort of thing according to them lot.
It's a case of the Europeans "picking and choosing" history to make it a little flowery and somehow more "palatable". Ok, so the British Scene does this also but it tends to focus on the fighting units over-all rather than the political drive behind them, or the occupational units behind them.
My attitude is that we won the war, and to bury the history that is "nasty" is simply the way to doom ourselves into repeating it. Something the Europeans seem to be inadvertently doing by giving rise to a bizarre kind of Nazi-ist cult that hates anything not fully agreeing with them.
Also, the thing that gets me is that people quite happily do the NKVD despite it's notoriety of being a rear-action unit that only focused on shooting deserters and citizens it felt that had been tainted by Germanic Occupation. Yet somehow the Waffen SS, a predominantly frontline Unit is tainted because of the letters "SS".
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Hoffman Grink
Maybe they are afraid of my vergeltungswaffe ... the CORLEONE-1 ...Fwbl Dollman wrote:Don't missyd. This year Germany gets a new vergeltungswaffe. this one has multiple warheads and is much more volatile than the Medland-1......
Ci vediamo
Daniela
Dove c'e' da Rievocare noi Rievochiamo - Dove c'e' da Ricostruire noi Ricostruiamo
Daniela
Dove c'e' da Rievocare noi Rievochiamo - Dove c'e' da Ricostruire noi Ricostruiamo
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steve kellher
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:21 pm
- Location: uk