Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum ?

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Stigroadie

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Stigroadie »

Now thats a very good, clear post, full of great points and sensible suggestions.
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Alex
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Alex »

cliques are what happens, socially. they are horrible and smelly but they happen every day just like a big poo.

They are always going to happen, but unlike FB, here everything is out in the open for open discussion.

HOWEVER ... When a clique does not accept discussion it becomes a cult.

Remember when I tried to limit the influence on here of the AFRA clique? They shut down discussion. Legal threats. physical threats, (and that just the start of it).

Cliques are OK, we all want to be a member of a group or a faction. Cults are bad. Stig, you were a member of the AFRA clique weren't you?

((AFRA I have been told is reformed now and doesn't proselytise anymore or harrass people, just so you know *wink)).
Stigroadie

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Stigroadie »

Alex wrote: Stig, you were a member of the AFRA clique weren't you?
I have been a member of the AFRA executive since it was reformed from its earlier axis only roots.
If you consider that a clique you don't know much about a) the definition and workings of a clique b) the internal workings of AFRAs executive.
I won't elaborate further, the details not for public consumption, suffice to say the AFRA exec could not be further from a clique.
Alex, you continue to confuse AFRA with personalities. It is unable to do any of the things you suggest. It is an association of re-enactors. Members may do the things you suggest but the association can't.
If a member chooses to take private action against you for defamation, as one seems determined to do, then he does so as an individual, it is not AFRA.
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Alex
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Alex »

for defamation.

you remember when you publicly said things on this forum I said to you in confidence when I had a beer or two?

shame on you stig roadie, and get the hell out of here.

You think I am scared of your AFRA cult calling the police on me? is that all you lot have now? you don't know where I live anymore so am free of personal stalky threats. You don't know where I work so you can't get at my employer. You don't my current love interest so you can't get at her either.

All you got is a few limp threats of defamation which, to be honest, with a testamony from a few guys from this forum would wither in dust.

I suggest you go to wwiireenacting.co.uk. I think you would fit in there and you can then sue anyone you like and they can all sue you too and you can have a big legal party. This forum can then get to know a life without AFRA, and jolly good it will be.

nothing good can come of this.

Alex.
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Mattias Sieger
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Mattias Sieger »

What a bunch of babies.....
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Stigroadie

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Stigroadie »

You didn't read a word of that last post of mine, if you did you didn't understand.
I'm not going to sue nor am I threatening to sue.
AFRA is not going to sue nor is it threatening to sue.
Why would I care where you live or what you love life is like?
You are right about one thing, while you show these levels of irrationality and paranoia, no good can come of it.
Peiper

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Peiper »

Just seen whats going on, this isnt good gents :(
I think personal items should be taken to a PM,
this isnt what the forum should be about imho
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Mattias Sieger »

I would like to elaborate on my previous post. It was written in frustration over the long line of rants that has troubled this forum for last month. I don't know what started it and I don't really care, all I can see is this vicious circle of bad temper and personal grudge ruining this otherwise excellent forum. A lot of this, I think, is due to the lack of grenadier-talk face to face.
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Stigroadie

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Stigroadie »

Mattias Sieger wrote:It was written in frustration over the long line of rants that has troubled this forum for last month.
Imagine, just for one minute what that frustration must be like if you have seen the same thing but over many years?
Peiper wrote:I think personal items should be taken to a PM,
Once again I find I disagree with you. It might do the forum good to see Alex in full flood.
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Mooyman »

Beter to discuss this with a nice cold beer,in private you wil have a better conversation.
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by geoffpara »

Alex makes an interesting point about cliques (sub-cultures; part of a larger culture which might be a national or organisational culture) in that they will naturally form. Cultures can be for good or bad and stem from the leadership of that culture, and in a small group that is normally one person. Some cultures legitimately don’t allow discussion because of the work being carried out or for other reasons such as time pressures, levels of responsibility etc. The point Alex raised about discouraging discussion I tend to associate with the term ‘Group think’ in that if you dare to challenge the sacred cows you’ll be sent to Coventry. The use of the term ‘Cult’ suggests to me a bad influence and I immediately think of the Waco siege and similar incidents where the organisation/group implodes eventually.

Both Mathius and Mooyman have suggested that this issue would be better solved in a face-to-face meeting. That assumes that it is only Alex and Stig that are the participants in this issue which means we are forgetting those that have already left or any other persons involved that haven’t posted or been mentioned previously. It also doesn’t take into account time, costs etc in getting the parties together and on neutral ground.

Just to put my cards on the table I am a member of AFRA as it was a requirement when I was a member of FJR2 to ensure we had PLI. I’ve stayed a member as it gives me the freedom to attend events that my group won’t be attending. It also means no group hierarchy of which I am a member can tell me what events I can and can’t attend because of a limited number of events on a group’s PLI. I’ve never been active in the admin of AFRA and have taken a role pretty similar to my presence on here; I tend to lurk in the background. I have no axe to grind either against Alex or others.

A call to get together to discuss issues assumes that there is a willingness to listen, hear what is being said, to negotiate and to compromise so as to achieve a mutually agreed ootcome.

At the moment Alex your posts suggest that you are fairly well entrenched in your current position which seems focussed on AFRA. Stig has effectively said that the AFRA you came across in the past is no longer reflected in its new format. He also tells us that any disagreements are not to do with the corporate AFRA but individuals that happen to be members of AFRA. My own personal experience of the change within AFRA is reflected in that at one stage not so long ago there was a ‘failure of admin’ which gave rise to a number of complaints from the membership. As a result there have been a number of significant changes to post holders, and particularly their responsibilities. As a member (customer of AFRA) I have found things much improved. Was AFRA a clique or a cult? Well, whatever it was in the past it now has a common purpose in providing service to its membership; there is no single cult-like person at the top in a Machiavellian role.

I can’t see any possibility of an immediate change in attitudes due to people being entrenched in their current positions. Change will take time. For me the bigger men in this will take a chance and offer conciliatory approaches to the other side. Hurt, whether real or imagined, needs to be spoken about as otherwise it will fester and things will only go tits-up once again. What are the different sides looking for in the form of address that would satisfy them… would that be acceptable to the other participants? If we can get the participants to think along those lines we have a start. From there we may actually find we get to pull a win-win situation from all of this.

Is it me or has the forum gone fairly quiet since this kicked off? It may be seasonal or are members quietly watching this from the recesses of the room to see what happens; some will probably be angling for position or favour; others looking at alternatives if all goes wrong; and the majority probably wondering what it is all about. For anyone who has been in UK WWII re-enactment for more than five years this situation will be appear to be awfully similiar to the one that spawned this forum. The mass migration to the Pst forum didn’t see the end of the other forum but it did leave a large hole that they’ve never been able to properly fill. Let's not let that happen here.
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Mooyman »

geoffpara wrote: Both Mathius and Mooyman have suggested that this issue would be better solved in a face-to-face meeting. That assumes that it is only Alex and Stig that are the participants in this issue which means we are forgetting those that have already left or any other persons involved that haven’t posted or been mentioned previously. It also doesn’t take into account time, costs etc in getting the parties together and on neutral ground.


i don't knowe exactly what's going on,as i come from abroad.
what i try to say is(for all that are involved)when you are face to face, the discussion
will be different.
i realy hope you Brits stay togehter, instead of falling apart.
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by dagda »

Its not about Afra, its a wider problem. The reason why its quiet because its empty.
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Crazy Feldgendarme »

Geoffpara you speak sense and yes it has gone quiet in my view many are awaiting the outcome but dont want to be seen to take sides in any argument, they just want to get on with there hobby in peace
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Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by berlin1945 »

Crazy Feldgendarme wrote:Geoffpara you speak sense and yes it has gone quiet in my view many are awaiting the outcome but dont want to be seen to take sides in any argument, they just want to get on with there hobby in peace

well said in the end people don't actually care , the silence is deafening and people just will get along with it, whther cliques existed whether they dont or do now, i personally don't give a flying feck , the sands of time will run through the hour glass, people come people go , its the way of the world in the end , i dont wish any one ill will and i don't think enough negatively of any one to care.
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