33rd Waffen SS Charlemagne

[Hoffman Grink]

Last public off topic post then if I may.

Publicly I will back track a little if it appears I too was vilifying Peiper - I have in private offered advice and sometimes support - I have also offered a hand for him to integrate more and (bad grammer) better. The offer still stands - Not a recruiting spiel but honest open and straightforward talk. I don't base my words on tittle tattle - I don't care about the stories (not that I have heard that many) and I base my writings to Loz public and private on what I see and read and feel myself - Therefore - I say agin and this time publicly - I'm happy to meet up with Loz at a gig, low key and privately, sit and have a good old natter and maybe a beer if the occasion suits (after all I have to handle certain items which mean I have to be dry at times) and explore a way forward. AFRA is for all. We deny no one entry (some don't or can't stay but genuine active LH/Re-enacty people can and do) and we provide opportunities for people to find their own level and take part in what I feel is one of the greatest pastimes ever.

I've never been openly hostile - I've poked fun (and will continue to do so where it merits - "If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined up" is the old maxim) I've corrected and I've voiced robust opinions. But I've always kept it civil and always will. Just like the legend that is Shady - I believe and can see that there is some good in everyone. Loz - you don't deserve some of what's been chucked at you and nothing is irredeemable - Stop trying so hard and relax - Show season's coming - come find me and the crew - let's get a first hand impression of each other and take it from there.

End of off topic from me.

[Peiper]

Thanks Hoff, i had already agreed to this when you PM'd me before

Back to topic now, here is an EK2 Citation to an SS-Rttf in the 33rd, intrestingly it has the
Charlemagne Regt stamp as somebody was asking about it earlier to copy one for their Soldbuch,
also is signed by Krukenberg the Regt-CO.

Charlemagne EK2 and Citation.jpg (57.55 KiB) Viewed 5042 times

Peiper

[Otto Weber]

Good one, Peiper, thanks!

[Peiper]

Piper

You do not help yourself. Last year i posted up the first pics of my impression, on which i had done lost of research through books and original footage. You made various comments about my impression of which were incorrect. After being corrected you began to back track and made out you had burnt an SMWholesale smock!

"Basically the Palmenmuster was all made exactly the same with no colour differences, even the patterning was
exactly in the same places on all smocks produced, i will dig out some ref books when i get home (im at work at the
moment)"

STILL HAVNT SEEN THESE REF BOOKS!

Sorry off topic again but in response to this post see "Waffen-SS (ISBN 978-1-86126-459-6) by Andrew Steven/Peter
Amodio, page 22-23, it is in there about the Palmenmuster incl pics !!!!

"This material appears to have been made into smocks by the manufacturers being specifically printed to fit the
smocks-thus smocks of this type (Palmenmuster) are seen with the same configuration on each"

Appologies gents, now back to topic

[Otto Kohl]

I dont know if this one was posted before.

French volounteer captured by polish soldiers somewhere in Pomerania region.

[Peiper]

No Otto haven't seen that one before, here's a couple of "new" ones
ive found which as far as i know haven't been on here before

SS-Charlemagne Wildflecken 1944.jpg (90.46 KiB) Viewed 4945 times

SS Charlemagne combat pic.jpg (58.72 KiB) Viewed 4945 times

Pipes

[Otto Kohl]

I have already seen those photos Peiper. Im afraid that first picture does not show Charlemagne. This scene comes from one of newsreels shot in Pomerania. I will try to find some more info about this photo.

[Peiper]

I have already seen those photos Peiper. Im afraid that first picture does not show Charlemagne. This scene comes from one of newsreels shot in Pomerania. I will try to find some more info about this photo.

Cheers Otto, the pic you are refferring to came from "FELDGRAU NET" and apparantly states that "De La Maziere" a Charlemagne
member is standing the closest to the camera, the pic apparantly was taken in 1944 at Wildflecken where the 33rd trained

Cheers Pipes

[Otto Kohl]

Thats impossible Peiper, I found this Wochenschau . Dated as March 1945 ( fights on the Oder river line Frankfurt-Kostrzyn (Küstrin) ) . So it is unlikely that this was Wildflecken. I've heard opinion that these soldiers might be Langemarck or Charlemagne, but that is something that i think we'll never know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IQJuQ4ctjs

[Peiper]

Thats impossible Peiper, I found this Wochenschau . Dated as March 1945 ( fights on the Oder river line Frankfurt-Kostrzyn (Küstrin) ) . So it is unlikely that this was Wildflecken. I've heard opinion that these soldiers might be Langemarck or Charlemagne, but that is something that i think we'll never know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IQJuQ4ctjs

Cheers for your opinion Otto, as i said earlier these pictures came from the Feld-Grau Net site and am
just quoting what was written on there about them, as i said there was a debate on there discussing
if the soldier nearest the camerera was the 33rd vet "De La Maziere", maybe their date was wrong

Regards Peiper

[Cookie]

Christ! I'm offline here for a couple of weeks and WWIII breaks out!

I don't know if it is any help at all but I did some extensive research into the Charlemagne Division and found, in the various sources available, that the only references made to awards mentioned the ones that weren't available. These sources (Robert Forbes, Jean Mabire, Tony le Tissier, Christian de la Meziere) mostly agree that the awards given out but never physically issued were: Close Combat Clasps and knights Crosses. There are numerous mentions of the men destroying tanks from Galicia '44 right through Pomerania to Berlin. There is no mention of the tank destruction award being either given out or NOT being available. However, Robert Forbes mentions in his excellent book that a junior NCO, wearing several tank destruction awards, was shot out of hand by a Russian tank crewman in Berlin as he was marched into captivity. Mention was also made of how other men, similarly awarded with TD badges, ripped them off prior to surrender as they didn't want to incur the wrath of the Russian tankers - mainly due to their prodigious kill rates in the last few days of the battle. Anecdotal evidence at best but enough for a very late war reenactment impression?

I'm not aware of Peipers dealings in other subjects and cannot comment on them as I keep my interests fairly limited to this one subject, but he has in this area been very proactive in finding sources of research. We have conversed many times on the advisability of certain insignias, awards etc. I support his impression and recommend he be incarcerated for Treason, ready to be sent out to Indochina to fight against the Viet Minh with the Penal battalion!

Regards to all!

[Cookie]

Adendum...

The knights crosses awarded to Fenet etc at the Battle of Berlin were, apparently, EKII's rigged on makeshift suspension loops. One source even claims Kruckenberg handed his over. I'll do some more digging for exact references.

[Peiper]

I support his impression and recommend he be incarcerated for Treason, ready to be sent out to Indochina to fight against the Viet Minh with the Penal battalion!

Regards to all!

Heh heh cheers Cookie
All the best, Peiper

[sapper44]

I have a couple of questions that I can't really find any answers to, so maybe you guys can help. I am still in the process of getting my act together and any help would be great.
1. What, if any, Heer specific items would someone from the LVF take with them when transfered to the 33rd?
2. Would the former LVF guy keep his Heer Soldbuch or been issued a new SS one?
3. Would they turn in their Heer tunics and been issued new SS ones or just been given the insignia to put on their old army tunics?
4. I have an M35 helmet that has a camo job done on it, would this be unusable doing 33rd?
5. From what I have read the LVF spent allot of time fighting Partisans did they get issued Anti-Partisan Badges or regular infantry assault badges?
6. On the WMA site the page about the 33rd states, " The divison was provided with left over German and Italian armament and provisions." Does this mean that they had access to italian camo, and Carcano rifles/Beretta MP38s?
Thanks;
Christian

[Otto Kohl]

From what I know Charlemagne did not have camouflage uniforms. In Pomerania in general there was little camouflage uniforms, dead soldiers found by friendly with us association "Pomorze 45" mention mainly about cloth uniforms and huge deficiencies in equipment.