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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:30 am 
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Location: Grossbritannien
42gunner wrote:
jeez, if only I couldve told my grandfather to keep some of that stuff.
Im still trying to find his Soldbuch.

Alot of documents and uniforms were thrown away or into the Sava river as the men were coming home.



Hi Gunner :)
Here is a Soldbuch and collection of other documents belonging to an SS Rottenfuhrer
"Sani" from the Handschar Div (he was later promoted to SS-Unterscharfuhrer), his original
surname was Hinko but seemed to have changed it to Heinrich to sound more Germanic which
apparantly a few NCO's did.

His Soldbuch differs from the normal SS type due to it being the version with Serbio/Croat
translation pages in it, these items had been sold at auction recently.

Attachment:
Handschar soldbuch 1.jpg
Handschar soldbuch 1.jpg [ 29.46 KiB | Viewed 3609 times ]

Attachment:
Handschar Soldbuch 2.jpg
Handschar Soldbuch 2.jpg [ 26.07 KiB | Viewed 3609 times ]

Attachment:
Handschar Soldbuch 3.jpg
Handschar Soldbuch 3.jpg [ 30.99 KiB | Viewed 3609 times ]


Regards Peiper

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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Nice soldbuch sir

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:09 pm 
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Thanks Franz :)
The items are not mine but belong to a friend sadly :cry:
I was just using them for some research lol

Regards Pipes :wink:

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:21 am 
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Location: Newcastle
more pics of the same soldbuch

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages ... s/d105.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:46 am 
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JDR wrote:


Thanks JDR.
Yes these images were sent to me by a friend so i could use them for research. :wink:

Peiper

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Here comes an iron into the fire????
Why would anyone want to re-enact a bunch of mutiny prone, bigoted, innocent murdering, run away if a real fight breaks out, bunch of terrible soldiers like the Handschar?

What would you tell the public when they ask why did you chose this unit to re-enact? They didn't cover themselves in glory did they?
They should be studied, without doubt. But I dont get why you would wish to re-enact such a lack lustre unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:13 pm 
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Stigroadie wrote:
Here comes an iron into the fire????
Why would anyone want to re-enact a bunch of mutiny prone, bigoted, innocent murdering, run away if a real fight breaks out, bunch of terrible soldiers like the Handschar?

What would you tell the public when they ask why did you chose this unit to re-enact? They didn't cover themselves in glory did they?
They should be studied, without doubt. But I dont get why you would wish to re-enact such a lack lustre unit.


Thanks for your comments Stig :wink:
As it happens i don't reenact this Unit, i just think they are unusual and have an outfit to wear as
something out of the ordinary at reenact events (the beer-tent lol)

But as for "run-away" types, you should read the beginning of this thread Stig as i have catalogued
the missions which the Handschar Unit contributed to and it is intresting reading kamerad!!!

Best regards, Peiper :wink:

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:02 pm 
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Peiper wrote:
But as for "run-away" types, you should read the beginning of this thread Stig as i have catalogued
the missions which the Handschar Unit contributed to and it is intresting reading kamerad!!!

Anti partisan missions? Burning a few villages and rounding up or shooting the survivors and submitting that as a report?
Is it some desire to appear perverse as our troops daily face a hidden Muslim enemy to parade in what was, you say, a mostly Muslim unit? If you share their religious convictions then I might have some sympathy with your choice but I see nothing to support that in anything you post.
Was the award of the Anti partisan badge in bronze common in the unit?

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:49 am 
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Stigroadie wrote:
Peiper wrote:
But as for "run-away" types, you should read the beginning of this thread Stig as i have catalogued
the missions which the Handschar Unit contributed to and it is intresting reading kamerad!!!

Anti partisan missions? Burning a few villages and rounding up or shooting the survivors and submitting that as a report?
Is it some desire to appear perverse as our troops daily face a hidden Muslim enemy to parade in what was, you say, a mostly Muslim unit? If you share their religious convictions then I might have some sympathy with your choice but I see nothing to support that in anything you post.
Was the award of the Anti partisan badge in bronze common in the unit?


Hi Stig :)
The answers to your questions: no im not Muslim kamerad, not that it should matter anyway whichever??,
i just find this particular Unit intresting, i picked up the bug for it when i was "attatched to the "Gebirg"
re-enact group and they used to do the Handschar portrayment occassionally.!!

As for the Anti-Partisan badge, as far as iam aware, these badges were not issued to everybody,
there was a criteria and you had to earn it in combat, the same as any other German combat badge!!

Regards Pipes :)

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:49 pm 
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Stigroadie wrote:
Here comes an iron into the fire????
Why would anyone want to re-enact a bunch of mutiny prone, bigoted, innocent murdering, run away if a real fight breaks out, bunch of terrible soldiers like the Handschar?

What would you tell the public when they ask why did you chose this unit to re-enact? They didn't cover themselves in glory did they?
They should be studied, without doubt. But I dont get why you would wish to re-enact such a lack lustre unit.


Do some research and stop reading from serbianna.com and other propaganda sites....that's as politely as I can say it.
Or read this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13540

I need your source on the murders and retreats in the face of the enemy.
Single battalions of Handschar stood in face of entire partisan divisions during the summer of 1944, inflicting heavy casualties while suffering a few wounded. During it's first 2-3 weeks of existance, 80 Iron Crosses were awarded.
By May of 1944, a huge proportion of Regt. 28 rated to wear the Anti Partisan Badge alone.


No link to the Arab insurgents and Jihad can be drawn from Handschar period.
Do some research.

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:09 pm 
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serious question,

did the men of the handchar division pray 5 times a day towards mecca ?


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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:13 pm 
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offcourse not, religious customs were relaxed to the point where they even drank alcohol.
We're talking about European Muslims not fanatics. In fact the only people that complained about religious customs not being followed strictly were the Imams who were previously religious officials in their communities.

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:28 pm 
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So how were they Muslim if they did not follow there religion in such a strict manor?

It's just like saying, oh I'm a vegi but I eat Fish........

anyway, a serious question what non anti partizan duties were they involved in?

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:37 pm 
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Sean

Quote:
So how were they Muslim if they did not follow there religion in such a strict manor?


you can say im a Christian but dont go to church same thing really.

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 Post subject: Re: Handschar Division
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Location: Afra
42gunner wrote:

We're talking about European Muslims not fanatics. .



who said anything about fanatics ? praying to mecca doesnt make you a fanatic.


So they were muslims but didnt pray to mecca ?


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