POW uniform help

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352nd
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POW uniform help

Post by 352nd »

The 352nd have been invited to do a show on the 2007 calendar as POWs. I want to know what uniforms German POW's wore. Did they retain the uniform they were captured in, only with the insigna removed or were they issued with a uniform?

Cheers
Stabsgefreiter Martin Hetch-2nd Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung, Grossdeutschland.

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BDMhistorian
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Post by BDMhistorian »

I have seen / read about both.

There's an article on Feldgrau where a soldier describes being issued with US uniforms. They had no insignia on them and were stencilled with PW for prisoner of war on the back. You can read about that at http://www.feldgrau.com/articles.php?ID=32, about halfway down the page.

Then I've seen articles of Germans captured in North Africa who were sent to camps in the US, and I have seen photos of them in their full German uniforms, to include insignia. You can read one such article and see accompanying photos at http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/features/fea ... ofwar.html - you can click on the images to enlarge them. I believe they were also stencilled with PW on the back.

There's also an article about German POWs in England during World War II with many photos and a listing of all the camps at http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/dixie ... s/pows.htm. It looks like they have all their insignia but the backs of their uniforms are stencilled with PW.

I've also seen just the letter P used stencilled on the uniform sleeve or trouser leg. There are some examples of that at this site - http://www.traces.org/germanpows.html
Hoffman Grink

Post by Hoffman Grink »

I got to say you must be frigging desperate to go to a gig as a POW. over the years we/I have turned down more gigs as a result of this..... I don't go to spend my weekend sitting looking glum or being ordered about by some arsehole on an ego trip.

But if you wanna do us a disservice - fine.

Unless its a very authentic, educational gig where they register you, delouse you, feed you, give you vitamin shots, exchange your uniform halfway through the day and let you write letters home to Germany etc. Which I very much doubt. It will more than likely be Mickey Mouse, yamping and clowning about with much laughing and joking...... I would think the Deppners, Krasners, Kaeppners and Mertz's of this world would very much enjoy coming to see you.... NOT.

Might seem like I'm having a go again but it's not at you.... Please - look for a show where you don't have to do this.... it's degrading.
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pzrwest
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Speaking of POW's

Post by pzrwest »

I have to relate a story my mother told me many times about German POW's. During the war there was a German POW camp not far from Bancroft Ontario. It wasn't like the normal POW camp as these men worked for a local lumber company. Come Saturday night they would bring the POW's into town(Bancroft) and stop in front of the local chinese resturaunt/tobacco store and they would drop the tailgate and the guys would get out. The escorts with them would tell them the truck will heading back to camp at a certain time and away the POW's would go. They earned some money working at the lumber camp and would come to town to spend it. After they had had supper at the resturant they would then go to the dance held beside the United church. Alot of the towns young men were quite jealous of the POW's as the young ladies loved to dance with the POW's. Mom said could those young germanboys dance.
Later around late 44 early 45 mom said they brought a young german boy around 17 or 18 to her dad's farm. This lad was at deaths door but after a few weeks he spruced up and started to come back to life. Apparently alot of the very young POW's were so homesick that their health was starting to fail. Someone clued in what these boys needed was a "momma and a pappa". When the war ended the young lad that was placed at my moms home didn't want to go back to germany. From what mom said they never had one man take off or try to escape.
As for what they wore she remembers they wore something like blue coveralls with large red "P"s on the back and red stripes along one leg
Stigroadie

Post by Stigroadie »

German POW's paroled to work on a farm in North Lincolnshire. Good mix of clothing.
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Look like brit BD or denim tunics on two of the guys, in a darker shade than normal. I heared of them being dyed dark brown for POW in the UK.
chap far right looks to have a DAK cap?
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Post by Salerno43 »

I heard of some being issued Brit BD's dyed black, and in the W-SS uniforms book there are pics of dot44 strides with a white painted P&W on them.

If its a crap do you can always escape :D
Stigroadie

Post by Stigroadie »

There does seem to be a lack of insignia.
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pows

Post by pzrwest »

The reason they were kept longer was because they were volunteers and concidered fanatics. Edgar my ex-uboot friend said when you went into inturnment you were classified as "A" and when you were conciderd re-educated "C" you were released. SS, FJ, Uboot were volunteers.
My friend Edgar said he wanted to join the SS but his father forbid it so he joined the Kriegmarine and volunteered for Uboot service. He said the reason he wanted to join the SS was because he thought they looked cool and were the elite. So his next choice the Kriegamarine... said they always had girls on either arm ... don't all sailors lol
I know this is off subject but why do women go nuts over sailors?????
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Post by Jugendkrieger »

http://www.dererstezug.com/events.htm


Click on PW's in the USA and under guidelines youll find what you need
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Post by 352nd »

BaggyPants wrote:My brothers ex-wifes father was a Ukranian serving in the Wehrmacht (He started off wit the Red Army ! ). We suspect he was in the 14th SS, but he refuses to confirm or deny it. He has photos of himself and his mates taken in a POW camp just days after his capture. None of them have any insignia left on their tunics. All traces have been removed, including shoulder boards. We suspect they took them off themselves to hide the fact they were SS. The main reason I believe he was in the 14th SS is that he was not released from the POW camp in West Bridgeford near Nottingham until 1948. Only "hardcore" types, like SS, Fallschirmjager and U-Boat crews, were kept in captivity until then.
Hmm, POW camp in West Bridgford. Do you know where that was, because I live in West Bridgford and I personal don't know where it was, as there's nothing left of it, but i have some ideas of where it might of been.
Stabsgefreiter Martin Hetch-2nd Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung, Grossdeutschland.

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Post by Jugendkrieger »

During World War II, the number of German Prisoners of War sent to the United States swelled from 31 in May of 1942 to over 371,000 in May of 1945. Upon leaving the theater of war in Europe for transport to the U.S, the enlisted prisoners were allowed to take a small bag for some personal items and the uniform they were wearing when captured. At the time of capture, badges, insignia and uniform parts were often taken as souvenirs or in some cases traded for cigarettes by rear echelon guards. However, many men made it all the way to their final camps with uniforms and insignia intact.

As the war advanced across Europe into Germany , many more prisoners were on American soil. As their numbers grew, the need for a mass produced prison system became increasingly apparent. The managing of this new problem was given to the various Service Commands operating in each region of the U.S. The housing of prisoners meant that POW camps needed to be established in many of the States. Barracks for sleeping, mess halls, hospitals and de-nazification classrooms were built. Prisoners were fed three meals per day, paid for work done on behalf of the U.S. Government and of course clothed. German prisoners were allowed to retain their original uniforms while in captivity. Since the United States was in full war production of all supplies, it had a growing surplus of uniforms being produced for the Army and Navy. The question of clothing the prisoners would be an easy one to answer by using the current U.S issue uniforms with simple modifications.

Depending on the climate of where the camp was located, prisoners were issued as needed, standard U.S. uniform shirts, jackets and trousers made of surge wool, HBT cotton, khaki cotton or navy denim. Except for the khaki M41 jacket, much of the clothing was dyed black or dark blue. This is was not a hard fast rule, but it seemed to be prevalent. To further modify the clothes, the letters “PW” were stenciled or sometimes hand painted using white paint on various areas of the clothing. Most all shirts and jackets had a combination of a large ten to twelve inch ”PW” placed on the back and or a four to six inch “P” and “W” placed on the right and left front pockets respectfully. Some photographs show instead of the pocket letters, six inch letters painted on each of the shirt’s sleeves just below the shoulder. This was done one letter per side.

Trousers that were marked had the four to 6 inch size letters placed on each of the rear pockets. There are photographs showing “PW” letters painted on the front of trousers between the knee and the top of the leg. Khaki and light blue denim shirts have been shown to have the “PW” letters painted in black in many cases.

In U.S Prisoner of War camp photographs I have studied, most German PW’s seem to be wearing the hats I assume they were captured in. Tropical cotton, wool, billed and garrison style show on most of the men photographed. Some PW’s are seen wearing U.S. issue HBT caps and “Daisy Mae” hats, but this is in fewer numbers compared to German issue headgear.

Not all of the marked clothing being worn in photographs was of U.S issue. Some of the early captives had their tropical uniforms marked with “PW” on them, although this was in small numbers due to the quick availability of the U.S. uniforms. It was reported at many camps while more U.S. uniforms were being issued, German prisoners were told by their own NCO’s and Officers to keep the uniforms issued to them by the Reich cleaned and packed away for use during official ceremonies. Camp funerals, weddings (by mail) and holidays were reason to assemble and wear the still proud uniform. This seems to be the case based on many wonderful photographs showing German soldiers marching and in formation wearing their original uniforms. This order however was not totally followed. Interestingly, photos show in many cases a mixed bag of the two uniforms being worn while at work and in daily life behind the wire. German issue shirts and or jackets with U.S issue trousers and the reverse. As a side note: I was told by a veteran who was in the Navy stationed at Norfolk during part of the war. He remembers seeing German prisoners working around the area wearing “Union Civil War brass button jackets with the white PW painted on the back”. I had heard this before as well. Obviously these were surplus from the Civil War, Indian Wars or the Spanish American War. In any event, it is a very cool first hand observation.

U.S. footgear was issued only when needed. A wonderful set of photographs taken in Howard County, Maryland in 1944 shows a mix of U.S low quarter boots, German low boots and even high tropical boots being worn by PW’s. Some of the PW’s even have what appears to be U.S issue leggings!

As a member of the Zug, choose an impression that you want to portray based on your capture date. If you are an early PW, then you may have more U.S issue clothing mixed with tropical gear. If you are portraying a “fresh fish” just in from France you may be wearing a U.S issue shirt with German trousers, headgear and boots.

And for your state of mind during your impression: Studies by the War Department reported that early prisoners held onto their “Nazi ways” longer than the later arrivals. The early captives acted more military, professional and totally non-defeated. They carried themselves as soldiers and tended to look down on the later arrivals that looked worn, malnourished and ready for the war to end.

Hear is what i was talking about
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Post by 352nd »

cheers Jugendkrieger for that infomation, it is very helpful.
Stabsgefreiter Martin Hetch-2nd Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung, Grossdeutschland.

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