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 Post subject: Green drillich tunics
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Location: South Africa
Hi guys

I recently came across a section in Brian L. Davis' "Uniforms and Awards" (I have the German one, due to an ordering mistake) which spoke on the green drillich tunics, and how they were worn in the field compared to the regular woolens.

Now my German isn't all that good, but the text seems to say that for an NCO wearing the green drillich tunic, they would also get the silver braid along the collar - which I have never seen a picture of. I also have a recollection of reading a different source which stated that the drillich tunics did NOT carry any NCO braid on the collar. Can anyone confirm or refute this based on fact?

Also - and I know this is a bit vague - what other differences in wear and 'badging' were there between the drillich and woolen tunics? I am using a drillich tunic because of our climate, and am trying to get it as accurate as possible for a mid- to late-war look. I am doing two main impressions, a Waffen-SS Panzergrenadier and a Heer Jaeger, so any differences in the drillich between the two would also be appreciated.

EDIT: when I say drillich here, I mean specifically the green HBT summer/warm weather uniforms, of which the tunic was cut the same as the M42/43 woolen tunics.

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Last edited by askhati on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Location: Philippines, south east asia
As far as i know, the waffen SS were rarely issued drillich tunics. There are a few photos but most show privately acquired officer's or NCO tunics. I'd like to confirm as well if this is true.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:36 am 
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...unless it was Dot44. It seems logical though: Waffen-SS summer tunic is Dot44 drillich, Heer summer tunic is green drillich. Would be interesting to hear some facts on this as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:57 am 
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When you talk about " Drillich " , do you actually mean the Drilliich tunics and trousers ( Heer - White/Ivory before 1940 , Green thereafter ) issued for work tasks , which were pressed into service in hot weather , and copied for use in those climates and commonly called HBT ? My understanding is that , certainly in the Heer , no ranking / badges were allowed on work drillich ( often ignored in the field ),
though when HBT was issued as a combat uniform , this did not apply .

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:10 am 
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I know of a picture of a Luftwaffe HBT uniform, issued, with NCO tresse. I can show you pictures if you want ..

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:51 am 
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Of course , HBT was an answer to the need for lightweight uniforms , without the soldiers having to resort to Drillich work tunics , and as such , rank distinctions were worn .

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:04 am 
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Apologies for the confusion: I am referring specifically to the HBT summer/warm weather uniforms, NOT the white work uniforms.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:31 am 
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Have a look here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 315&type=3

In the case of the luftwaffe, Summer uniform regulations still applied. Chevrons were worn on them, along with tresse for NCOs, but collar tabs were not (officially anyway).

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:12 pm 
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If you are referring to the reed green, four pocket, HBT jackets, then my understanding is that (in the Heer at least) they were not a personal issue item, like the wool tunics were. The HBTs were just temporarily issued to members of a unit (those units lucky enough to have HBTs, most seemed to sweat it away in the wools) for the summer period at the end of which period they were returned to stores and not retained by the individual soldier. Then they would be reissued to someone else for the next summer. Therefore they were not supposed to be modified with insignia (they obviously came with the eagle and collar litzen on), apart from adding (and removing before returning to stores) their shoulder boards. Therefore it follows that NCOs should not add collar tresse/braid.

HOWEVER, like all rules they are made to be broken, and there are plenty of pictures out there where NCOs have added tresse, and also some that Officers have got hold off and modified with Officer's insignia etc. I assume in those cases the individual soldier claimed that they had "lost" the tunic at the end of the season, or been able to retain the jacket somehow, and not returned it to stores at the end of the season, keeping hold of it to personalise it with insignia.

Amongst other such examples there is a good one on page 137 of "God, Honor, Fatherland" (by McGuirl/Spezzano) showing a Feldwebel in HBT to which he has not only added shoulderboards as you normally would, but also collar tresse and a Grossdeutschland cuff title, and for some reason he has also removed the collar litzen....


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Location: Shropshire UK (The heart of England)
It also appears some certain Officers purchased HBT's personally as some original
examples i have seen are in a variety of colours, ranging from field grey to almost
off white grey shade, there are some original examples in the Jean De Lagarde book
"German Soldiers of WW2"

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:21 pm 
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A lot of officers and senior NCOs had their own as they refused to give them up. This also went for winter clothing where officers often kept their Winter clothing as they did not trust their chances on getting something the next winter. NCOs were often allowed to keep their HBT uniforms as a favour, a lot of the Feldwebel earned a certain respect from the officers and were allowed some more leniency. I am of course talking about mid to late war where exceptions almost seemed to outweigh the rules.

Originals often have litzen on them for the NCOs, but you can tell right away that this is very crudely done, often more care was taken for the litzen on the wool uniform.

Officer's HBT tunics were easier to badge up though, as often they didn't bother with the collar tabs and used a EM eagle that was pre sewn on, therefore only having to add the slip-on shoulder boards.

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Leutnant Ulrich Stab./II/JG-52
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./756. Gren. Reg.
Leutnant Ulrich Heereshochgebirgsschule
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./Geb.Aufkl.Abt.54


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:53 pm 
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As stated before, I am doing both an Waffen-SS and a Heer NCO impression (focusing on the Heer one though), so this information is greatly appreciated. I will also be interested in all photos that can be provided on the subject.

Just to give an idea of my current Heer NCO outfit, all in HBT:
Image

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:48 pm 
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Location: In the middle of the Swiss Alps
Looks like you've got a good start there, but I would really invest in some period glasses, changes everything if you want the pictures to look like period pictures. Also the map case I would change for this one:


Attachments:
13769110_1_l.jpg
13769110_1_l.jpg [ 46.64 KiB | Viewed 3161 times ]

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Arthur

Leutnant Ulrich Stab./II/JG-52
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./756. Gren. Reg.
Leutnant Ulrich Heereshochgebirgsschule
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./Geb.Aufkl.Abt.54
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Location: South Africa
Actually, there's a bit of a story behind those glasses. They are my 'spare' set, which I only wear during airsoft games - my main glasses have frames which are too large to fit under the ESS 'dust goggles' that I have to wear for eye protection. I do agree though - some dienstbrille would be ideal for non-shooting re-enactments.

The meldetasche I picked up for dirt cheap, as an experiment in how it would interact with the webbing. If the webbing belt can be seen as a clock dial, with the buckle at 12:00 and the rear leg of the suspenders at 06:00, where is the meldetasche meant to go - 02:00, or 03:00? Also, would the ammo pouch on that side be retained, or left out?

/bit off topic/

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Location: Shropshire UK (The heart of England)
Personally for my Waffen SS impression i wear the green HBT trousers with a woollen
tunic whilst at events, especially during the battles as it gets quite hot running around
laden down with gear etc, as for parades i wear the wool trousers, personally for SS
apparel i wouldn't wear the green HBT jacket as there is not a lot written about the SS
wearing them tbh so i try to stick to the norm if i can, basically if there are no pics of
them then they didn't wear them imho.

Tbf i haven't seen alot of SS pics wearing the green HBT tunics apart from the odd
Officer pic, it appears SS wasn't issued them, but i had seen a few pics wearing what
looks like the trousers especially Normandy 44 period, it appears the HBT tunics were
more a Wehrmacht issued item according to pics and info taken from ref books.

As for your question about the map case, the rank and file didn't wear them as a rule
but occasionally NCO's would wear them but usually if they needed them such as
Artillery gunners or Recon/Krad troops, your normal run of the mill Infantry NCO wouldn't
need one tbh, also it would usually be worn with a pistol holster or MP40 mag pouch on
the other side, wearing it whilst armed with a KAR-98 looks odd imho

Pipes

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Staff-Sgt, British Airborne Pathfinders Unit
ww2airbornegroup.webs.com


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