Jäger uniform

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askhati
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Jäger uniform

Post by askhati »

I am looking for some advice on Jäger uniforms, and figured this would be the best place to ask after my own research turned up blanks. For clarity, I will define the following terms:
- Jäger = light infantry units
- GJ and SJ as Gebirgsjäger and Skijäger respectively

So. I am looking for some info on the Jäger units, specifically:
- Did they wear the same oak leaf insignia on their caps and right upper sleeves as the GJ?
- Their waffenfarbe was the same light-green as the GJ and SJ (pretty sure about this one, please correct if mistaken). How easy would it be to mistake light-green Jäger boards for green Panzergrenadier boards? I have not had a chance to compare the two side-by-side, so excuse the question if the answer is obvious :P
- Aside from the waffenfarbe and (potentially) the oak leafs on their caps and tunics, did they possess any other 'unique' unit insignia or equipment? I am especially curious about their footwear, and whether they would have followed the late-war move to use low boots and (canvas) gaiters, or used the GJ climbing boots and wrapped gaiters instead.

Any more information on the Jäger units would be greatly appreciated.
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conrad uno
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by conrad uno »

Hi

I'm no expert, but I recently looked into putting together a GJ impression and I think I may be able to answer some of your questions.

GJ wore Edelweiss tunic and cap insignia not the oak leaves of the regular Jager units. The oak leaves insignia was unique to the jager units and as you state was worn on the tunic and cap. Embroidered or woven bevo type insignia was worn on the right tunic sleeve and a metal or embriodered badge was worn on the left side of the cap.

There's a lot of confusion over the correct waffenfarbe colour for jager and PG units.

cheers
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askhati
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by askhati »

Thanks - found an extract from Brian L. Davis' "Uniformen und Abzeichen der deutschen Heeres 1933-1945" which explains the oak leafs / Edelweiss insignia difference between the Jagers and the GJ quite nicely. Seems the light-green waffenfarbe was also what the Jager, GJ and SJ wore, so that question is sorted now.

Now it just remains to be seen whether they had any other unique kit...

Here's a thought though: if you were in a medical, artillery or pionier unit inside a Jager division - e.g. a pionier unit assisting the two Jager regiments - would you still wear the Jager insignia (cap brooch, arm badge) along with your blue / red / black waffenfarbe? Or were the oak leafs reserved for the "true" Jagers only, i.e. those with light-green waffenfarbe? Found a pic of an officer in a panzer wrap with the oak leaf badge on the right sleeve, but could not determine the waffenfarbe colour.
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Gliderinf
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by Gliderinf »

Panzergrenadiers = Grass Green - that's the lighter green / can look like it has some yellow in it.

Gerbergsjager = Green - looks like a medium green

A lot of people will say the opposite / there clearly was some use of the opposite colour at times - how much ? no idea.

Jager = well it should be green - however they weren't always called jager or insigniared as such. They were light Infantry Divisions - so how much white may have been used - and to what extent that may have been replaced and when ?


the Jager units are set up before the jager insignia was issued - so it can be difficult to tell whether they had it or not by any given date.

Some Jager had Bergmutze / some had Bergshue / some had GJ smocks, pants etc.

Which units had - or did not have - at what dates and places ????????

problem is their isn't much in the way of books on all this - they mostly fought in the east and they aren't as popular as GJ, so it's harder to find out.
Gliderinf / Luftlande
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askhati
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by askhati »

The Davis book lists the following waffenfarbe colours:

Hellgrun (light green)
- Divisionsstabe der Gebirgstruppen
- Schutzen-Regimenter
- Gebirgstruppenschule

Wiesengrun
- Krad-Einheiten
- Motorisierte Infanterie (motorised infantry - panzergrenadiers)

...Hence my understanding that Jagers (light, GJ, SJ) would have used the light green, with panzergrenadiers using the darker green waffenfarbe. Can you quote a source where it is the other way around?
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Gliderinf
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by Gliderinf »

"Can you quote a source where it is the other way around?"

yep - the source you just quoted.

translate Wiesengrun
Gliderinf / Luftlande
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askhati
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by askhati »

...Bloody Google translate...

So the Jagers were 'light green' and the PZGD were 'grass green'. The plates from Davis show both, with the Jager one looking distinctly lighter than the PZGD one though. On the big boards-and-litzen reference table on p.30, compare group 24 with 27:
- 24 = light-green = Jager
- 27 = darker (grass?) green = PZGD

According to your reading though, you understand the PZGD one to be the lighter of the two?
Gliderinf wrote:Panzergrenadiers = Grass Green - that's the lighter green / can look like it has some yellow in it.

Gerbergsjager = Green - looks like a medium green
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Oberleutnant Ulrich
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by Oberleutnant Ulrich »

Gebirgsjäger/Jäger has a lighter green than Panzergrenadiers, normally. Panzergrenadiers really stuck to their darker green but Gebirgsjäger/Jäger were know to have used a whole array of different greens.
Arthur

Leutnant Ulrich Stab./II/JG-52
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./756. Gren. Reg.
Leutnant Ulrich Heereshochgebirgsschule
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./Geb.Aufkl.Abt.54
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Heeresbergführer
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by Heeresbergführer »

Servus Kameraden,

Here's an example of the variations of green Waffenfarbe used by Gebirgsjägers, Jägers, PzGrenadiers, Pharmacists, and Officials from the book "Uniforms and Traditions of the German Army 1933-1945:"

Image
Dort, wo der Adler haust!
Hauptmann u. Heeresbergführer "Papa" Kiser
Kompanie Chef
5. Kp./Hochgebirgsjäger Btl. 4


Image
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askhati
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by askhati »

Bloomin' 'ell... I can understand the confusion now!

Going by intent though, would it be safe to say that:
- light green = top row #3 = all types of Jägers
- grass green = middle row #2 = PZGD
...? I understand that older units might have retained their original, pre-PZGD boards, etc etc - but the intent was probably to have them split properly light versus dark.

The reason I am hammering on this point is that I need to buy new shoulder boards for a Jäger impression, and I want to get it right! :P (it would be a late-war Jäger, circa D-Day and later, for a young NCO at Unteroffizier or Unterfeldwebel level)
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Oberleutnant Ulrich
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by Oberleutnant Ulrich »

Go with number 3 fro your Jäger impression, it's also the colour type that's mostly sold for Jägers, I use it.
Arthur

Leutnant Ulrich Stab./II/JG-52
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./756. Gren. Reg.
Leutnant Ulrich Heereshochgebirgsschule
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./Geb.Aufkl.Abt.54
SplinterA
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by SplinterA »

Clearly there was only ever one shade used by each arm.
NOT!
If you search this forum there is a series of photographs culled from the web of original numbered shoulderboards with light to medium green piping. The Dutch guy Imme who found them went through the army lists and sorted out by the numbers which ones were Gebirgs and which one grenadiers. If there were two units with the same number the boards were not included. There is only one conclusion that can be drawn from his work. They wore green. Light to medium green. Some of the boards worn by Panzer Lehr were nasty acid green.
Dont get bogged down with dogmatism. There was a war on and the exact shade of piping was far from anyone biggest concern. There were the official shades but they dont seem to have been adhered to.
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Heeresbergführer
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by Heeresbergführer »

Servus Kameraden,

I would have to agree with SplinterA's comments. Over the 30+ years that I've been collecting original GJ items and researching, just about all shades of green show up on original tunics....much like all the different shades of Feldgrau! As much as collectors and reenactors like to categorize and site 'TEXTBOOK" examples, there was no such thing during the war. Most of this stuff wasn't massed produced by one, or even several large manufacturers, but by 100's, if not thousands, of little cottage industries though out Germany, as well as in occupied countries. Then you factor in raw materials, transportation, supplies getting out to the troops, etc. Lots of variations exist. In the examples that I posted above from the book, I would say that of the shades of light green, numbers 1 and 2 are the most prevalent that I've seen in original items. Posted below are some examples of original items from my collection and the Gebirgsjäger Museum in Sonthofen, Germany.


My Collection

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GJ Museum

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Horrido!

Patrick
Dort, wo der Adler haust!
Hauptmann u. Heeresbergführer "Papa" Kiser
Kompanie Chef
5. Kp./Hochgebirgsjäger Btl. 4


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askhati
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by askhati »

Very nice collection, congratulations. Would you mind if that raises some further questions? :P

1) For the Jager oak-leaf arm insignia, I see you have both the BEVO and the embroidered models. Was there any difference in the time/reason of issuing (I know they started in '42), and do you have any suggestions on the best way to get the BEVO one stitched on in a manner where it still appears to be smoothly round? (Not sure on cutting and such)

2) For the metal Jager cap leafs, how were they attached - sewed on, or via a brooch/pin back?
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RZM
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Re: Jäger uniform

Post by RZM »

With any Bevo style patch,it was cut and folded. Like the Bevo Totenkopf on my M43 Mutzen,(and side eagle) some people are particularly good at folding. I got my M43 from Bill Bureau,and his tailor did the folding and stitch work. Stellar work in my opinion.
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