Advice on reconnaissance uniform

Moderator: Feldjager

Post Reply
User avatar
askhati
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:40 pm
Location: South Africa

Advice on reconnaissance uniform

Post by askhati »

Hi

A mate of mine recently put together a Panzer recon impression, consisting of the following:
- black panzer wrap tunic (with matching trousers)
- collar is piped in yellow; collar tabs are metal Totenkopf on black backing, with yellow waffenfarbe edging
- chest eagle is silver thread on green backing
- awards include a silver Wound Badge and a silver Infantry Assault Badge

Can anyone comment on the validity of said impression? What struck me as "wrong" was the green backing for the chest eagle, and the Infantry Assault Badge in silver (expected bronze for motorized troops, or a General Assault Badge). He defended the choice of green backing by saying that he is attached to an infantry division; likewise for the IAB.

Any comments on this? I am not really familiar with either the panzer or recon units, and did not force the issue at the time.
"Klagt nicht - Kämpft!"
User avatar
Walther
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Advice on reconnaissance uniform

Post by Walther »

It should certainly be the Bevo style chest eagle (up to Offizier ranks then its gets messy with private purchase) on a black backing.

The assault badge is tricky as you are right in suggesting the bronze Inf Assault or General Assault, but during our research we have found evidence of the Silver being used - maybe they were transferred in from Infantry regiments.

The only other sticking point that I can think of is the piping around the collar. From what I've found out its an early war thing used on the first pattern tunics - depending on what period your friend portrays it might not be 100% correct.
Rittm.u.Kompanie-Chef
Großdeutschland Aufklärungs
---------------------------------------
"When Barbarossa commences, the world will hold its breath"

Image
User avatar
Walther
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Advice on reconnaissance uniform

Post by Walther »

Just found the thread on our forum, hopefully this post will help clarify:


Ha-ha! Here we enter another debate of almost similar nature. According to my references, the Panzer Assault Badge in bronze was open to members of:

- armoured reconnaissance units of the rifle battalions of Panzer divisions
- crews or armoured cars and other armoured vehicles that were not classed as tanks

So for armoured reconnaissance soldiers to get this badge, they had to be from recce units of Panzer divisions, not from recce units of Infantry or other divisions. For GD this would depend on what period of the war you are portraying, as it changed as the war went on.

The Infantry Assault Badge in bronze was open to members of:
- motorised or armoured Infantry
When GD was first being formed in April 1939 it was an Infantry regiment, but by October 1939 it had become a motorised Infantry regiment. It ended the war as a Panzergrenadier Division.

As for the General Assault Badge, this was instituted for soldiers who were not eligable for the silver versions of the Infantry Assault Badge and Panzer Assault Badge. For the silver Infantry Assault Badge, you had to be a member of an Infantry Regiment, Grenadier Regiment, Fusilier Regiment, Rifle Regiment or Mountain Rifle Regiment. For the silver Panzer Assault Badge, you had to be a member of a tank crew. The idea of the General Assault Badge was to cover soldiers of other trades in the army, particularly Pioniers (Combat Engineers who would very often be found on the front line under fire), but it wasn't specific to them as sometimes stated. Indeed, some Soldbuch references actually list it as the Pionier Sturmabzeichen. Armoured reconnaissance and assault artillery fall into this category, among others from any other part of the army who found themselves in the midst of battle (even Kreigsberichters). This can be confusing to some people as certain trades may or may not fall into this category. An example of this would be a signaller. A signaller who is part of an Infantry Regiment is not the same as a signaller from a Signals Regiment. Therefore the first may get the Infantry Assault Badge, but the second may get the General Assault Badge.

All 3 of these awards were instituted on 1st June 1940. The silver versions of the Infantry Assault Badge and Panzer Assault Badge had been instituted since 20th December 1939, but many soldiers who saw action were not eligable for these awards, hence why these 3 new badges were created

Of course this can be made confusing when looking at wartime photos, as Mick stated, soldiers often moved from unit to unit, meaning that someone from the Infantry may have been awarded a silver Infantry Assault Badge, but later moved to a Reconnaissance unit. He would still wear the award he was originally issued, so this is why sometimes you see things like silver Infantry Assault Badges on Panzer black uniforms.

To make things even more confusing, as the war progressed, the category that a reconnaissance unit fell into also changed as time went on. At first they were classed as motorised infantry, but later in the war they classed as armoured units and therefore more in line with Panzers. So earlier in the war you may have been awarded the General Assault or maybe the Infantry Assault in bronze, but towards the end of the war, the same action would have earned you the Panzer Assault in bronze instead.

Whichever one you choose to wear could be dependant on not only what period of the war you are portraying at the time, but also your character history.

Fun, isn't it".


http://www.gdrecon.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... lit=Bronze
Rittm.u.Kompanie-Chef
Großdeutschland Aufklärungs
---------------------------------------
"When Barbarossa commences, the world will hold its breath"

Image
User avatar
askhati
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:40 pm
Location: South Africa

Re: Advice on reconnaissance uniform

Post by askhati »

Okay... So as a recon unit attached to an infantry division, he would then be eligible for the Bronze IAB - not the Bronze PAB? (since his division is infantry, not panzer).

As for the backing on the breast eagle: am I correct in understanding that the green backing had nothing to do with the division type, but is instead meant to match the uniform colour? E.g. a black panzer wrap would have an eagle with black backing, while a reed green HBT panzer wrap would have an eagle with green backing?

Will check with him and confirm what his intent is. Thanks for the info.
"Klagt nicht - Kämpft!"
Halle
Posts: 1025
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:57 pm
Location: Sud west

Re: Advice on reconnaissance uniform

Post by Halle »

Black panzer wrap , black eagle . Eagle backings varied according to uniform colour ( eg. Tropical ) and changed during the course of the war , but had nothing to do with unit distinction .
Aufklarungs waffenfarbe was Gold yellow ( when it became yellow ) , lemon yellow was for signals , there's a noticeable difference .
Piped collar was early pattern , but obviously could be retained during the war , awards were also transferable , but your friend might want to stick with armoured varietys .
Head gear can be early war black Schiffschen ( with waffenfarbe ) , plain black , late war plain black or Feldgrau M43 , or a nice crusher with Gold yellow piping .
Jäger Stefan Halle 3./I./Geb.Jag.Reg.100
Post Reply

Return to “Uniforms and Insignia”