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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Gliderinf wrote:
Yep - back peddling when youre proved wrong is really helpfull. :lol:


I havent been proved wrong to my knowledge ??

I have proved that Palmenmuster camo was mainly worn by the TK......
which i said from the beginning....try reading posts for once instead of
trying to be clever Mr know all, i wont say this again !!

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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:17 pm 
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feuerwerker wanted to know what they wore in 44-45

You said it was all Palm tree

other folks said either a mix or mainly plane tree (not much palm tree)

You back peddled and said you meant at kursk - which is irrelavent to the question (and they wore plenty of plane tree then as well)

you were wrong - as usual - but are still determined to prove you were right - also as usual.

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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Location: Missouri, USA
There is also the no camo option. That solves all the controversy and is also within the realm of possibility. IMO, camo is overdone by all of us SS guys anyway. Although I do believe plane tree was the dominant pattern.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Gliderinf wrote:
feuerwerker wanted to know what they wore in 44-45

You said it was all Palm tree

other folks said either a mix or mainly plane tree (not much palm tree)

You back peddled and said you meant at kursk - which is irrelavent to the question (and they wore plenty of plane tree then as well)

you were wrong - as usual - but are still determined to prove you were right - also as usual.


Whatever....you know what i said, i was answering
the other post from somebody else where they said
TK mainly wore Planetree, this isnt the case because
early War till mid 43 the TK wore palmenmuster and
if you read my first post you will see i said early to mid
War ......ok stop trying to cause an argument because
its not happening...you know what i was reffering to !!!

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:44 pm 
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Location: Hertfordshire & Kent
I provided a link to over 600 photos from the one photographer alone. All SS units in the 41-43 period wore a palm, but plane tree was dominant. Try looking through the thousands of period photos in the archive, better than any Google search or book.

http://www.kriegsberichter-archive.com/

In 44 the only photos I have seen of TK specific SS troops they were wearing the type 2 smock in Plane tree, that not to say other patterns were not worn.

So if I were going to re-enact TK 44, I would have a type 2 plane tree smock. The later war design being more prevalent in 44.

Re-enacting 41-43 I would go for a type 1 plane tree smock, or possibly palm as it was more common in those years

The idea being to represent the norm for a given year rather than the exception.

http://2kompanie.org/Uniforms.html - useful link to a good uniformed group in the US, they have done their research. The units Facebook page also show so good shots of the average TK soldat at different stages of the war. I think many groups could learn a thing or two from them.

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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Good advice from Olly, Panzer Wittman,grenmartens, and valid point form dixiedrummer = although i think it is maybe over done for the Division as a whole - while most folks reenact the parts of the division that had the highest issue of cammo - rather than various supporting units that recieved less.

though as most folks have pointed out - it really is down to the unit / time / place.

I personnaly would suggest that if someone is buying a first smock and helmet cover - go for plane tree (type 1 construction) as this covers more ground and is more predominant for more units and more acceptable in others than any other set up.

Then you can add in others to cover what is most predominant at other times / places.

and importantly - make sure you stick to SMW or Panther store.

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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Olly wrote:
I provided a link to over 600 photos from the one photographer alone. All SS units in the 41-43 period wore a palm, but plane tree was dominant. Try looking through the thousands of period photos in the archive


Of course mate if you look through 600 SS photos the plane tree smock would be dominant for one thing they made
different variations of them while the palm tree was limited in number, the other reason is that alot of SS Units
were issued them unlike the palmtree smock so obviously the Planetree smock was more plentiful, and yes late 44
the chances of seeing TK in palmenmuster was few nobody is disputing that mate, what im saying is early to mid War
the palmtree smock in the TK Regt was the dominant type of smock issued.
Cheers Peiper

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:41 pm 
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TK units mainly used the palmenmuster pattern (palmtree) as far as i can see
going from ref books, even mid to late War the old sweats clung onto these
as they were as sign of a veteran according to ref book pics/info.
[/quote]

Your words Peiper.
Noting about early war

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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Peiper wrote:
feuerwerker wrote:
I was thinking Totenkopf.

TK units mainly used the palmenmuster pattern (palmtree) as far as i can see
going from ref books, even mid to
Its there late War the old sweats clung onto these
as they were as sign of a veteran according to ref book pics/info.

I have seen pics of oakleaf being worn but these appear to be the reversible white/
camo trousers for winter wear being worn with the "Kharkov fur parka" which appears
the TK were issued in large numbers (parka) late War, but early to mid War camo smocks
for TK is usually the palmtree tbh

Good luck Peiper :wink:


Its there Shane at the end, you "missed" the last
paragraph out when you misquoted me !!

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Location: Hertfordshire & Kent
Gliderinf wrote:
Good advice from Olly, Panzer Wittman,grenmartens, and valid point form dixiedrummer = although i think it is maybe over done for the Division as a whole - while most folks reenact the parts of the division that had the highest issue of cammo - rather than various supporting units that recieved less.

though as most folks have pointed out - it really is down to the unit / time / place.

I personnaly would suggest that if someone is buying a first smock and helmet cover - go for plane tree (type 1 construction) as this covers more ground and is more predominant for more units and more acceptable in others than any other set up.

Then you can add in others to cover what is most predominant at other times / places.

and importantly - make sure you stick to SMW or Panther store.


Well said, especially the bit about SMW / Panther store.

Be really nice to see a unit fully kitted out in one camo combination, but in the world or re-enacting that sort of thing is bloody hard to achieve! TK in the US have done a very good job however. FJR 6 LHA also did a good job when the group all had Tom Gulliver smocks back in the late 90s.

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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Peiper i did not misquote you.
you said TK units mainly used the palmtree even mid to late War as it was a sign of beeing a veteran

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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Location: Grossbritannien
Peiper wrote:
feuerwerker wrote:
I was thinking Totenkopf.

TK units mainly used the palmenmuster pattern (palmtree) as far as i can see
going from ref books, even mid to late War the old sweats clung onto these
as they were as sign of a veteran according to ref book pics/info.

I have seen pics of oakleaf being worn but these appear to be the reversible white/
camo trousers for winter wear being worn with the "Kharkov fur parka" which appears
the TK were issued in large numbers (parka) late War, but early to mid War camo smocks
for TK is usually the palmtree tbh


Good luck Peiper :wink:


Is that better Shane??..try reading all the post next time instead
of certain parts !!
Regards Peiper

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:11 pm 
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Posts: 605
some nice details :)
http://pictureshistory.blogspot.nl/2011 ... rs-ss.html

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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Early to mid planetree 1/2 and palm would be best for tk late war im not to sure of and piper the last photo you posted up was nord

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 Post subject: Re: Help with Camo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 10:28 pm
Posts: 196
A question regarding 'holding onto' older styles of smocks.
I'd like to state first this is NOT having a dig at anyone but is an open question.
I'm sure buried in a thread somewhere on this forum is a quote from a vet stating that camo smocks were handed back in to the QM at the end of autumn to swap for winter wear and then reissued when the weather got better.
With that in mind would the spread of older styles be arbitrary rather than necessarily indicative of length of service?
Just a thought


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